4 ms·

Why would the FBI confiscate and sell his property? Just because he was arrested doesn't mean he's guilty, and even if he his that doesn't give the FBI the rig

by amock 10y ago

Why would the FBI confiscate and sell his property? Just because he was arrested doesn't mean he's guilty, and even if he his that doesn't give the FBI the right to confiscate his property.

mirimir 10y ago
Well, they sold DPR's Bitcoin before he was convicted. Cops do that. It's partly how they fund themselves. I was responding to the precious "maybe we'll never know" aspect of the article. I'm not saying that civil forfeiture is legitimate. Far from it. But it's pretty common. Edit: Also, the article basically suggests burglary as an option. So ...
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  To which DPR agreed.
  - mirimir 10y ago
    Really? That I did not know. Why? Plea deal?
    - kevinnk 10y ago
      In his pre-trial, Ross denied ownership[1] of the server that the coins were found on (for obvious reasons - the server also ran the Silk Road). Since no one claimed ownership, the FBI was free to auction them. [1] This actually turned out to be a major blunder on the part of the defense. See http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/ http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/
      - jessaustin 10y ago
        Eh, do we all really believe the judge on that one? Sure, if he had claimed ownership, then the unreasonable search objection wouldn't have fallen on that point. Except, she eventually would have found some other reason why all FBI activities constituted "reasonable" search. Conviction rate in federal court is over 90%, and for many of those cases only the prosecutor assigned even gives a shit. Everybody in the federal system, FBI, prosecutors, judges, etc. wanted this guy's head on their wall, so no legal argument was going to keep him out of FPMITAP. Ross was fucked from the moment the beast knew his name. For future projects like Silk Road, a basic part of the security plan will be to set up Ross look-alikes to take the fall, because USA-Justice is not something you can just design around. Once the beast has a scent, it will be fed, by someone.
    - gwern 10y ago
      There were two sets of Bitcoins. The bitcoins found on the SR1 server, which the Ulbricht defense team decided to not claim any interest in (which in retrospect seems like a serious legal blunder per the other comment), and the bitcoins found on Ulbricht's laptop in SF and his backup devices etc. The SR1 server bitcoins could be sold off without any trouble, but Ulbricht's bitcoins were in legal jeopardy as they might have been the proceeds of drug trafficking and not legitimate Bitcoin trading activities. As it happens, Ulbricht's bitcoins also got sold off as part of a mutual agreement between Ulbricht and the government to insulate them against the possibility of Bitcoin going to zero during the lengthy legal proceedings. (Neither party would be happy if terrible things happened to Bitcoin and it slowly went to zero, but they couldn't sell or do anything about it because the bitcoins were frozen.)

by amock 10y ago

Why would the FBI confiscate and sell his property? Just because he was arrested doesn't mean he's guilty, and even if he his that doesn't give the FBI the right to confiscate his property.

mirimir 10y ago

Well, they sold DPR's Bitcoin before he was convicted. Cops do that. It's partly how they fund themselves. I was responding to the precious "maybe we'll never know" aspect of the article. I'm not saying that civil forfeiture is legitimate. Far from it. But it's pretty common. Edit: Also, the article basically suggests burglary as an option. So ...

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
To which DPR agreed.
- mirimir 10y ago
  Really? That I did not know. Why? Plea deal?
  - kevinnk 10y ago
    In his pre-trial, Ross denied ownership[1] of the server that the coins were found on (for obvious reasons - the server also ran the Silk Road). Since no one claimed ownership, the FBI was free to auction them. [1] This actually turned out to be a major blunder on the part of the defense. See http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/ http://www.wired.com/2014/10/silk-road-judge-technicality/
    - jessaustin 10y ago
      Eh, do we all really believe the judge on that one? Sure, if he had claimed ownership, then the unreasonable search objection wouldn't have fallen on that point. Except, she eventually would have found some other reason why all FBI activities constituted "reasonable" search. Conviction rate in federal court is over 90%, and for many of those cases only the prosecutor assigned even gives a shit. Everybody in the federal system, FBI, prosecutors, judges, etc. wanted this guy's head on their wall, so no legal argument was going to keep him out of FPMITAP. Ross was fucked from the moment the beast knew his name. For future projects like Silk Road, a basic part of the security plan will be to set up Ross look-alikes to take the fall, because USA-Justice is not something you can just design around. Once the beast has a scent, it will be fed, by someone.
  - gwern 10y ago
    There were two sets of Bitcoins. The bitcoins found on the SR1 server, which the Ulbricht defense team decided to not claim any interest in (which in retrospect seems like a serious legal blunder per the other comment), and the bitcoins found on Ulbricht's laptop in SF and his backup devices etc. The SR1 server bitcoins could be sold off without any trouble, but Ulbricht's bitcoins were in legal jeopardy as they might have been the proceeds of drug trafficking and not legitimate Bitcoin trading activities. As it happens, Ulbricht's bitcoins also got sold off as part of a mutual agreement between Ulbricht and the government to insulate them against the possibility of Bitcoin going to zero during the lengthy legal proceedings. (Neither party would be happy if terrible things happened to Bitcoin and it slowly went to zero, but they couldn't sell or do anything about it because the bitcoins were frozen.)