7 ms·

I worked at a lab programming for minimum wage when I was 15; this isn't sweatshop work. Children are allowed to work in the US, too. (Though, certainly, not at

• KC8ZKF 17y ago
  Did you work sixty hours a week when you were fifteen? "In its report, Apple revealed the sweatshop conditions inside the factories it uses. Apple admitted that at least 55 of the 102 factories that produce its goods were ignoring Apple's rule that staff cannot work more than 60 hours a week."
  • vishaldpatel 17y ago
    So there were 7 15 year olds at a factory in China. Most of the employees were adults here, but a few weren't. Perhaps this isn't an example of forced child labour, but rather some 15 year old being the primary bread winner for their family? Social safety nets aren't the same everywhere.
    • nfnaaron 17y ago
      Exactly. I'm in conflict here. I'm against exploitive child labour, but I can easily imagine the scenario you describe.
    • KC8ZKF 17y ago
      The social safety net does not have to be the same everywhere for us to make ethical decisions on the products we buy, or for a company to make ethical decisions about how their products are made. I'm sure these teenagers' wages were important to their families. I doubt they were saving up for a Xbox, but I can't exploit that fact because I want a cheaper Nano. I just can't. I'm glad Apple is taking care of this.
      • radu_floricica 17y ago
        You're mixing things here. It's like you say you didn't steal the wallet, and also there wasn't anything in it. Either those children working is a bad thing, or it's not. If they're making money necessary to feed themselves and their families, then you should be proud of paying part of those money. Of course, we don't really know if it was a good thing. We don't know if they were 17 or 10, whether they really needed the money or how many hours they worked. The situation is much murkier then the knee jerk "I can't exploit it". And unfortunately not trying to think more about it doesn't help those kids one bit.
        • KC8ZKF 17y ago
          That some children have to work full time in factories to feed their families is a bad thing. I cannot exploit the fact that bad conditions exist.
          • derefr 17y ago
            "That someone exists hanging off a cliff is a bad thing. So I shall remove the cliff." The only way you can achieve a positive benefit for these children is by paying their wages. Removing that payment is removing the benefit, and nothing more. Nothing good will come of it, save for a smug look on your face as they go back home empty-handed for the day, or as the factory switches to making parts for Dell or Toshiba instead.
          • gcheong 17y ago
            When I was 13 or 14, I worked picking strawberries in the summer in Oregon. It involved getting up very early, riding a school bus for a couple hours to the fields, working all day doing back straining work for little pay, and then taking the bus home. I didn't need to feed my family, but I wanted to work because I wanted to have some spending money. I'm glad I live in a country where that opportunity was made available to me. Is this "OK"? Were those "unethically" picked strawberries?
• fiaz 17y ago
  How can you be so certain that the conditions are benign in the factories under question?
• yequalsx 17y ago
  Ah...the old imperial justification. Apple doesn't directly hire the children to work in the shops so their moral obligation ends there. I'll bet those kids even earn more than would have made if Apple hadn't contracted out to the factory. I wonder if your working conditions were the same as the Chinese kids' working conditions. Hmmm...I wonder if you would be willing to work under the same conditions as these kids work in.
  • viraptor 17y ago
    I don't think that OP was ok with the working condition. Just that the article throws blame in the wrong direction. You can work as a 15-yo in many countries, but you have special law protection and lower maximum working hours. I don't see anything wrong with children working. Meanwhile there's a much bigger problem: "The technology company's own guidelines are already in breach of China's widely-ignored labour law, which sets out a maximum 49-hour week for workers." If there were no children, would it be ok? Would the article even be written? This rule affects all the workers. And since the rule is "widely-ignored" I expect many more factories with even worse conditions. Unfortunately "Apple fails" + "Won't somebody please think of the children?" seems to be more important than specific law being broken on a nation scale.
  • imok20 17y ago
    I, too, do wonder. Right now, it's not clear what those conditions were; my comment was meant to address the only clear-cut part of this vague article: that 15 year-olds were working in a factory. I'm not justifying poor working conditions, nor am I justifying overwork (though I find it interesting that we don't see it as criminal when professionals spend around 130 hours a week working.) I was simply astonished at the knee-jerk reaction so many have when children... gasp... work! Substantiated claims that the working conditions of these children were poor can be addressed separately. But, by all means, protect these children from feeding their families.
    • angstrom 17y ago
      I find it awkward as well. I grew up on a dairy farm and helped out with chores starting at the age of 10. Technically that's child labor and it's fairly common place. The utility of my labor had the same effect of helping my family. Though one key point would be it was usually never more than 2 hours on school days and 8-10 hours during summer vacation -- the reason kids originally had summer vacation.