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If wages remain steady, then they aren't being adjusted for inflation, and then life starts to become more and more unaffordable. Immigrants have about as much

by uxp 10y ago

If wages remain steady, then they aren't being adjusted for inflation, and then life starts to become more and more unaffordable. Immigrants have about as much correlation with poor people as a cloudy sky has with flooding.

gozur88 10y ago
We're talking constant dollars. If you want to talk unadjusted we're all in fat city. You're wrong about the immigrant thing. If you add a third again as many poor people to your population your statistics are gonna show a lot of poor people.
- atomi 10y ago
  The way I look at it is if you were to walk into a store or restaurant and all you see are immigrants, and you were to somehow get rid of them they wouldn't magically be replaced by citizens. The store or restaurant just wouldn't exist or it would just be mostly empty. I don't think we should be trying to make far fetched correlations between suicide rates and immigration...
  - gozur88 10y ago
    You're missing the point. Let's say you have a country with a million middle class people (only). Over a ten year period a million poor people with a sixth grade education and no ability to speak the language immigrate to your country (legally, illegally, doesn't matter). If you look at the poverty statistics, you've had an enormous increase in poverty and your average wage is much lower. But that's just... math. Also, those people will push down wages on the lower end. Wages are a function of supply and demand. When you add a whole bunch of people to the supply without increasing demand, the clearing price will be lower just like the price of cars would drop if you doubled production and dumped them on the market. If you're a native born person you're not going to get a raise for a long, long time. If you really believe suicides are in part driven by income inequality, you can't pretend immigration isn't part of the problem.
    - atomi 10y ago
      So instead of a wall that will cost billions to build and billions more to maintain, we use that money to invest in education, decrease taxes and raise the minimum wage.

by uxp 10y ago

gozur88 10y ago

We're talking constant dollars. If you want to talk unadjusted we're all in fat city. You're wrong about the immigrant thing. If you add a third again as many poor people to your population your statistics are gonna show a lot of poor people.

atomi 10y ago
The way I look at it is if you were to walk into a store or restaurant and all you see are immigrants, and you were to somehow get rid of them they wouldn't magically be replaced by citizens. The store or restaurant just wouldn't exist or it would just be mostly empty. I don't think we should be trying to make far fetched correlations between suicide rates and immigration...
- gozur88 10y ago
  You're missing the point. Let's say you have a country with a million middle class people (only). Over a ten year period a million poor people with a sixth grade education and no ability to speak the language immigrate to your country (legally, illegally, doesn't matter). If you look at the poverty statistics, you've had an enormous increase in poverty and your average wage is much lower. But that's just... math. Also, those people will push down wages on the lower end. Wages are a function of supply and demand. When you add a whole bunch of people to the supply without increasing demand, the clearing price will be lower just like the price of cars would drop if you doubled production and dumped them on the market. If you're a native born person you're not going to get a raise for a long, long time. If you really believe suicides are in part driven by income inequality, you can't pretend immigration isn't part of the problem.
  - atomi 10y ago
    So instead of a wall that will cost billions to build and billions more to maintain, we use that money to invest in education, decrease taxes and raise the minimum wage.