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I hope revealing salaries doesn't get him in trouble at AirBnb. I know I would be a bit annoyed if he revealed all of this before joining if I were an employer

I hope revealing salaries doesn't get him in trouble at AirBnb. I know I would be a bit annoyed if he revealed all of this before joining if I were an employer. Conflating base salary and RSU packages, especially pre-IPO RSUs, is a mistake. In my 20 years in Silicon Valley I've learned you simply can't put too much faith in stock. Stock is great, but it goes up and down. The only thing that is real is base salary, even bonus isn't guaranteed. Stock or options are nice, but they are icing on the cake, if you get a chance to cash out, so combining them with base salary is generally a mistake.

pjmlp 11y ago
Are salaries trade secrets on US? Here usually we talk openly about them.
- mwfunk 11y ago
  "Here" is not very specific, so I'm not sure how to interpret that. :) I wouldn't say it's a trade secret, but for whatever reason, talking openly about salaries in the US does carry a stigma of unprofessionalism. I don't attribute that to any single cause- I think the attitude comes from a combination of good and bad influences. I don't know if it's a net positive or negative- I suspect it's a wash. People also don't talk about salaries in social situations (IME). That's much more understandable, I think- it's just a lose-lose situation. If you make more than whoever you're talking to, it's awkward. If you make less than whoever you're talking to, it's awkward (for different reasons). It's usually not a topic that people would want to talk about outside of a professional context because either one person is going to feel bad, or the other person is going to feel like a jerk, or both. Or they're both sociopaths, in which case, whatever floats their boats.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    Here in Europe, usually the people that don't talk about salaries do so, because they are constrained to reveal the values or don't want to constrain others in the room. But usually among friends, people are generally comfortable mentioning them.
- virmundi 11y ago
  America is full of fools on this point. We don't talk about salary because, in the back of our minds, it's a determiniate of our value. This is not true in most philosophical systems, but it's true in our post-modern materialism. The end result of our self-censor is a weak labor market. We don't know what we're worth. Americans, aside from our verbrato, tend to underestimate our worth. There are people working for 80k with 8 years of experience in advanced fields like Big Data that don't realize that they bring their companies 200k+ worth of value. They don't realize that their peers with less skills and marketability are making the same 80k. This makes management's life better: thicker margins. When an individual attempts to move past this barrier, especially consciously, anti-union sentiment pops up. People start to get defensive. Others get lustful. A reasonable dialogue turns into a battle of the Joneses. Labor fights Labor.
  - cylinder 11y ago
    I'm constantly amazed at how Americans are so afraid to offend their employer by demanding things. They are not your family! I actually want these relationships to be more adversarial.
  - ScottBurson 11y ago
    > Americans, aside from our verbrato "Bravado". I wouldn't correct you except that it took me a good five minutes to think of the correct word :-)
xiaoma 11y ago
> "I hope revealing salaries doesn't get him in trouble at AirBnb. I know I would be a bit annoyed if he revealed all of this before joining if I were an employer." I hope it doesn't get him in trouble, too. It would be both illegal and a gross ethical violation on Airbnb's part. The National Labor Relations Act of 1935 gives all employees the right organize and "engage in concerted activities", including the right to discuss their terms and conditions of employment with each other. Obama also signed an executive order last year reinforcing these rights. If you have a problem with employees sharing compensation information, you shouldn't be an employer in the US (or anywhere, really). http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies-at-work-often-illegal-and-misunderstood http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies...
- rawnlq 11y ago
  The trouble is probably a social one, not legal. Every engineer there is comparing themselves to a guy with a year of experience and thinking that they shouldn't be paid less. All at once. Either AirBnB ends up making 230k the minimum salary for everyone or people will take this guy's advice and start negotiating, getting counter offer from other places and possibly just leave. Management ended up paying a lot more than 230k for this guy so they are probably not happy.
  - ask0n 11y ago
    I see your point, but I think it would useful for every engineer to learn the whole life story of that guy, before comparison.
  - xiaoma 11y ago
    Social backlash is understandable. Employers aren't allowed to punish people for revealing their salaries though.
  - JDiculous 11y ago
    On the flipside, more talent would probably apply to AirBnB knowing that a guy like him can land 230k. Not to mention he's indirectly marketing for AirBnB by explaining why he was attracted to the company and chose them over Google (often seen as the holy grail of software engineering). I highly doubt that management is pissed. More transparency is overall a positive thing. Underpaid people should know that they're being underpaid, and engineers notoriously suck at negotiation.

pjmlp 11y ago

Are salaries trade secrets on US? Here usually we talk openly about them.

mwfunk 11y ago
"Here" is not very specific, so I'm not sure how to interpret that. :) I wouldn't say it's a trade secret, but for whatever reason, talking openly about salaries in the US does carry a stigma of unprofessionalism. I don't attribute that to any single cause- I think the attitude comes from a combination of good and bad influences. I don't know if it's a net positive or negative- I suspect it's a wash. People also don't talk about salaries in social situations (IME). That's much more understandable, I think- it's just a lose-lose situation. If you make more than whoever you're talking to, it's awkward. If you make less than whoever you're talking to, it's awkward (for different reasons). It's usually not a topic that people would want to talk about outside of a professional context because either one person is going to feel bad, or the other person is going to feel like a jerk, or both. Or they're both sociopaths, in which case, whatever floats their boats.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Here in Europe, usually the people that don't talk about salaries do so, because they are constrained to reveal the values or don't want to constrain others in the room. But usually among friends, people are generally comfortable mentioning them.
virmundi 11y ago
America is full of fools on this point. We don't talk about salary because, in the back of our minds, it's a determiniate of our value. This is not true in most philosophical systems, but it's true in our post-modern materialism. The end result of our self-censor is a weak labor market. We don't know what we're worth. Americans, aside from our verbrato, tend to underestimate our worth. There are people working for 80k with 8 years of experience in advanced fields like Big Data that don't realize that they bring their companies 200k+ worth of value. They don't realize that their peers with less skills and marketability are making the same 80k. This makes management's life better: thicker margins. When an individual attempts to move past this barrier, especially consciously, anti-union sentiment pops up. People start to get defensive. Others get lustful. A reasonable dialogue turns into a battle of the Joneses. Labor fights Labor.
- cylinder 11y ago
  I'm constantly amazed at how Americans are so afraid to offend their employer by demanding things. They are not your family! I actually want these relationships to be more adversarial.
- ScottBurson 11y ago
  > Americans, aside from our verbrato "Bravado". I wouldn't correct you except that it took me a good five minutes to think of the correct word :-)

xiaoma 11y ago

> "I hope revealing salaries doesn't get him in trouble at AirBnb. I know I would be a bit annoyed if he revealed all of this before joining if I were an employer." I hope it doesn't get him in trouble, too. It would be both illegal and a gross ethical violation on Airbnb's part. The National Labor Relations Act of 1935 gives all employees the right organize and "engage in concerted activities", including the right to discuss their terms and conditions of employment with each other. Obama also signed an executive order last year reinforcing these rights. If you have a problem with employees sharing compensation information, you shouldn't be an employer in the US (or anywhere, really). http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies-at-work-often-illegal-and-misunderstood http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies...

rawnlq 11y ago
The trouble is probably a social one, not legal. Every engineer there is comparing themselves to a guy with a year of experience and thinking that they shouldn't be paid less. All at once. Either AirBnB ends up making 230k the minimum salary for everyone or people will take this guy's advice and start negotiating, getting counter offer from other places and possibly just leave. Management ended up paying a lot more than 230k for this guy so they are probably not happy.
- ask0n 11y ago
  I see your point, but I think it would useful for every engineer to learn the whole life story of that guy, before comparison.
- xiaoma 11y ago
  Social backlash is understandable. Employers aren't allowed to punish people for revealing their salaries though.
- JDiculous 11y ago
  On the flipside, more talent would probably apply to AirBnB knowing that a guy like him can land 230k. Not to mention he's indirectly marketing for AirBnB by explaining why he was attracted to the company and chose them over Google (often seen as the holy grail of software engineering). I highly doubt that management is pissed. More transparency is overall a positive thing. Underpaid people should know that they're being underpaid, and engineers notoriously suck at negotiation.