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I just realized something. We are such a wealthy and privileged society that there isn't much real motivation to take a high demanding and stressful job like so

I just realized something. We are such a wealthy and privileged society that there isn't much real motivation to take a high demanding and stressful job like software development. You're playing on the Indian/Chinese are good at C.S. trope, but really isn't it possible that life is just harder there and they are forced/highly motivated to MAKE themselves good at C.S. in order to improve their quality of life? It makes me rethink my perspective that "yes everyone should learn to code because it makes your life better (money, independence, etc)!". Honestly we talk so much about depression, anxiety, poor work-life balance, in this industry WHY the hell are we trying to drag more people down with us? Is the compensation really worth it compared to alternatives? Aren't there actually a lot of jobs that pay $80k+ (or equivalent Bay Area spending power) in the world?

madeofpalk 11y ago
> a high demanding and stressful job like software development. That sounds like privilege privilege. Maybe ive been incredibly lucky, you you've been incredibly unlucky, but I would not call our industry high demanding or stressful.
- ben_jones 11y ago
  + Work hours typically above 45 hrs/week + Work on weekends regularly + SRE + DevOps + Back-end roles + Painfully aware of current company's runway Admittedly much of the pressure is internal (I take responsibility for the successes and failure of my work, which increases anxiety and influences me to work longer hours), am I an outlier? I honestly believe the industry pushes this towards the norm with a mixture of the "full-stack-engineer" and "start-up culture" motifs. By the way I'm also asserting that the high rates of depression, anxiety, and mental health disorder, prove that SWE is a demanding field.
  - solipsism 11y ago
    Have you considered not working at a web startup? It's a big world, there are a lot of software engineering jobs that are nothing at all like what you describe.
  - douche 11y ago
    Still, you're working inside, for a steady, generally hefty, paycheck, with very low chances of catastrophic physical injury, with very low exposure to harmful chemicals and carcinogens. It's a high-demand field, with a lot of options. Beats the pants off of back-breaking manual or industrial labor. I certainly think there's a huge problem with a lot of software jobs being essentially pointless, with an enormous disconnect between the time and effort expended and the tangible results of that effort, which takes a psychological toll. So much of what software and IT does is digging holes and filling them back in, or battling imaginary rules and processes, working on top of a fragile, rickety stack of other software that fails if you look at it cross-eyed.
    - george_soros 11y ago
      You are forgetting about stress completely.

madeofpalk 11y ago

> a high demanding and stressful job like software development. That sounds like privilege privilege. Maybe ive been incredibly lucky, you you've been incredibly unlucky, but I would not call our industry high demanding or stressful.

ben_jones 11y ago
+ Work hours typically above 45 hrs/week + Work on weekends regularly + SRE + DevOps + Back-end roles + Painfully aware of current company's runway Admittedly much of the pressure is internal (I take responsibility for the successes and failure of my work, which increases anxiety and influences me to work longer hours), am I an outlier? I honestly believe the industry pushes this towards the norm with a mixture of the "full-stack-engineer" and "start-up culture" motifs. By the way I'm also asserting that the high rates of depression, anxiety, and mental health disorder, prove that SWE is a demanding field.
- solipsism 11y ago
  Have you considered not working at a web startup? It's a big world, there are a lot of software engineering jobs that are nothing at all like what you describe.
- douche 11y ago
  Still, you're working inside, for a steady, generally hefty, paycheck, with very low chances of catastrophic physical injury, with very low exposure to harmful chemicals and carcinogens. It's a high-demand field, with a lot of options. Beats the pants off of back-breaking manual or industrial labor. I certainly think there's a huge problem with a lot of software jobs being essentially pointless, with an enormous disconnect between the time and effort expended and the tangible results of that effort, which takes a psychological toll. So much of what software and IT does is digging holes and filling them back in, or battling imaginary rules and processes, working on top of a fragile, rickety stack of other software that fails if you look at it cross-eyed.
  - george_soros 11y ago
    You are forgetting about stress completely.