3 ms·

I don't agree with the author on one point, not all achievement in a game are "fake". Well, that actually depends on your perception of the definition of what i

by rick_2047 17y ago

I don't agree with the author on one point, not all achievement in a game are "fake". Well, that actually depends on your perception of the definition of what is fake. In my opinion, if you actually solve a problem, a puzzle or a quiz in a game that amounts up to a "real" achievement.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
barrkel 17y ago
Please explain what you mean by "real achievement". At a minimum, I would think that it must include making people's lives better, directly or indirectly. By that metric, solving a puzzle - e.g. sudoko - is fake, as the puzzle could be solved much more efficiently e.g. by a computer program, and the human effort put into solving it could be much more productive - and "real" - elsewhere.
- pohl 17y ago
  That's a good question. Does building muscle mass by lifting weights count as a real achievment? Being fit makes that person's life better (and possibly others, since wellness travels along social networks). Repeated problem solving is cognitive exercise, so perhaps it can also be "real". The trick would be to be honest about the benefits of said exercise. Imagine someone who only worked their biceps, but deluded themselves into thinking their achievement were greater.
  - barrkel 17y ago
    I make a distinction between exercise and work. The things you do repeatedly, all else being equal, are the things you get better at. Do actual physical labour, and you'll get stronger; do fake physical labour in a gym, and you'll also get stronger. But modern life doesn't need much in the way of actual physical labour. FWIW, I've never been in a gym in my life, and view the religion of the church of the gym with some bemusement, but I'm not particularly unfit - right in the middle of normal BMI, and I enjoy cycling as a means of commuting, rather than exercise. Mental work, on the other hand, there is an abundance of. There's no end of things a motivated person can put their mind to and affect real people positively. Cognitive exercise is at best a cultural experience - such as games - or mental chewing gum for those waiting periods, but as we grow more connected with gadgets etc., there are fewer excuses to waste effort with no substance.
    - electromagnetic 17y ago
      > But modern life doesn't need much in the way of actual physical labour. Ha! Come work my job. Did you ever wonder how houses were built, or how shelves are stocked in supermarkets, or how trucks are loaded . . . just because you work in a cubicle doesn't mean everyone in the western world does. Despite a recession, the construction sector in the majority of the world is still rapidly growing, in parts it stayed well within the double figures. BTW BMI in its present form and fitness have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. It was designed to study muscle development amongst soldiers, and more over it was designed to show muscle development on an individual basis over military training. IE where they started vs where they ended. In its original iteration it had nothing in it whatsoever to do with measuring obesity, because it was literally the heavier the better.
      - barrkel 17y ago
        I stand by my statement: in the days of farming, easily 90% or more of the population was doing hard physical labour. (And I don't work in a cubicle. Actually, I work from home.) And BMI was just a useful shorthand to indicate that I wasn't e.g. overweight or obese (or a musclebound athlete).
- rick_2047 17y ago
  You cannot always say dat a puzzle can be solved much efficiently by a computer. And after all we have to program the computer to do so, and for that first we have to understand the problem itself (at least partially).

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

barrkel 17y ago

Please explain what you mean by "real achievement". At a minimum, I would think that it must include making people's lives better, directly or indirectly. By that metric, solving a puzzle - e.g. sudoko - is fake, as the puzzle could be solved much more efficiently e.g. by a computer program, and the human effort put into solving it could be much more productive - and "real" - elsewhere.

pohl 17y ago
That's a good question. Does building muscle mass by lifting weights count as a real achievment? Being fit makes that person's life better (and possibly others, since wellness travels along social networks). Repeated problem solving is cognitive exercise, so perhaps it can also be "real". The trick would be to be honest about the benefits of said exercise. Imagine someone who only worked their biceps, but deluded themselves into thinking their achievement were greater.
- barrkel 17y ago
  I make a distinction between exercise and work. The things you do repeatedly, all else being equal, are the things you get better at. Do actual physical labour, and you'll get stronger; do fake physical labour in a gym, and you'll also get stronger. But modern life doesn't need much in the way of actual physical labour. FWIW, I've never been in a gym in my life, and view the religion of the church of the gym with some bemusement, but I'm not particularly unfit - right in the middle of normal BMI, and I enjoy cycling as a means of commuting, rather than exercise. Mental work, on the other hand, there is an abundance of. There's no end of things a motivated person can put their mind to and affect real people positively. Cognitive exercise is at best a cultural experience - such as games - or mental chewing gum for those waiting periods, but as we grow more connected with gadgets etc., there are fewer excuses to waste effort with no substance.
  - electromagnetic 17y ago
    > But modern life doesn't need much in the way of actual physical labour. Ha! Come work my job. Did you ever wonder how houses were built, or how shelves are stocked in supermarkets, or how trucks are loaded . . . just because you work in a cubicle doesn't mean everyone in the western world does. Despite a recession, the construction sector in the majority of the world is still rapidly growing, in parts it stayed well within the double figures. BTW BMI in its present form and fitness have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. It was designed to study muscle development amongst soldiers, and more over it was designed to show muscle development on an individual basis over military training. IE where they started vs where they ended. In its original iteration it had nothing in it whatsoever to do with measuring obesity, because it was literally the heavier the better.
    - barrkel 17y ago
      I stand by my statement: in the days of farming, easily 90% or more of the population was doing hard physical labour. (And I don't work in a cubicle. Actually, I work from home.) And BMI was just a useful shorthand to indicate that I wasn't e.g. overweight or obese (or a musclebound athlete).
rick_2047 17y ago
You cannot always say dat a puzzle can be solved much efficiently by a computer. And after all we have to program the computer to do so, and for that first we have to understand the problem itself (at least partially).