6 ms·

Being coached by professional microbiologists in a working lab is not really an advantage?

uremog 11y ago
While I think the parent underestimates the impact stated, I also think the point was that the experiment can be done at home by nearly anyone with the will, science fair or not, privilege or not.
jerf 11y ago
Just to confirm, uremog is getting my point. No, it really isn't an advantage. It would be an advantage if one were doing an experiment that required access to a particular strain of cells or really specialized equipment or specialized knowledge, but this particular experiment is none of the above. And even to the extent that it may help, the science fair is a time to not use it! A great deal of the point of such activities is to show how anybody can use the scientific methods to learn things. If you take your student to a high-tech lab to do their high-tech experiment on high-tech equipment, you're just further reinforcing the idea that Science is a Thing done by Scientists and I Can't Do It Myself. If I were running a science fair, a rock-solid requirement for me to judge something as the winner would be a plausible argument that pretty much any student could replicate the experiment with school-level resources, if they took the time.
- hooloovoo_zoo 11y ago
  It's not trivial for a middle-schooler to make an incubator and I'm sure this girl got advice from microbiologists that would have taken her much longer to gather on her own. They had all the equipment she would need right there (sterile loop, agar plates, bunsen burner, lab grade ethanol). Plus, she probably had a bunch of equipment to make it easier (test tubes, tube shaker, that light she's using to examine the plates). So really she had a huge advantage over someone doing it on their own.
  - tzs 11y ago
    > It's not trivial for a middle-schooler to make an incubator You don't actually need an incubator. Bacteria won't grow as fast at room temperature, but for the kind of experiment she was doing that should not be a problem. Nevertheless, it is actually pretty easy to make an incubator. Google for "homemade bacterial incubator" and you'll find many sites offering instructions. A typical design uses an aquarium tank, an incandescent lamp, a dimmer, and a thermometer. This should be well within the capability of any middle schooler. If the kid is up for doing a little programming, they could even toss in an Arduino and use a dimmer that can be controlled by it and automate keeping the temperature constant. The rest of the things needed, like Petri dishes, agar, and such are available from Amazon. There are even kits specifically aimed at people who want to grow bacteria for science fair projects.
    - jerf 11y ago
      Again, let me point out that this is more evidence of just how deeply ingrained the idea that Science is Something You Can't Do is ingrained in the culture. The physical requirements for science are easy to get. Specific experiments may be hard, but that's a characteristic of the experiments, not "science". The hard part is all in the attitude, learning to look for reasons why you are wrong instead of right. It is not in the physical gear and it's not in following a particular checkbox procedure thoughtlessly. (If I could, I'd remove "The Scientific Process" from the curriculum. It's a misnomer, literally starting from the word "The".) It is a grave failure of the education system that so many people come out of it thinking otherwise.
      - hooloovoo_zoo 11y ago
        You're not understanding the argument. Can a person with no instruction and a kazoo and a person with years of training and a Stradivarius both make music? Sure. But the second one is going to win the prize at the county fair.
        triangleman 11y ago
        But the argument was that giving someone a kazoo was not enough to get them interested in music, you must also give them a violin and an instructor or they will lose interest.
- function_seven 11y ago
  > If I were running a science fair, a rock-solid requirement for me to judge something as the winner would be a plausible argument that pretty much any student could replicate the experiment with school-level resources, if they took the time. I thought the point of this article was that Veronica was specifically told she couldn't do this experiment as you describe: We also learned that this experiment was so potentially dangerous that Veronica would have to carry it out under the supervision of a trained expert, who would first have to submit a detailed risk assessment. That she wanted to do it the simple way, but the school said, "No, you're not allowed to. We're too afraid" I feel like I'm confusing something somewhere.
  - jerf 11y ago
    I am being critical of that. The more I think through this, the stronger I come to the conclusion that this whole thing is of negative value, actively subverting the only goals that matter, and it might as well be shut down. This whole thing is a useless farce. As long as we're discussing privilege, the correct use of privilege would be to tell the school to just go to hell, run the experiment anyhow with the probably $10 of equipment you need, and submit something to the actual science fair as perfunctory as possible that will let you pass (leaning on your "privilege" to pass). And skip the visits to the microbiologists, because that proves the wrong point. You should be doing this on your own.

While I think the parent underestimates the impact stated, I also think the point was that the experiment can be done at home by nearly anyone with the will, science fair or not, privilege or not.

jerf 11y ago

Just to confirm, uremog is getting my point. No, it really isn't an advantage. It would be an advantage if one were doing an experiment that required access to a particular strain of cells or really specialized equipment or specialized knowledge, but this particular experiment is none of the above. And even to the extent that it may help, the science fair is a time to not use it! A great deal of the point of such activities is to show how anybody can use the scientific methods to learn things. If you take your student to a high-tech lab to do their high-tech experiment on high-tech equipment, you're just further reinforcing the idea that Science is a Thing done by Scientists and I Can't Do It Myself. If I were running a science fair, a rock-solid requirement for me to judge something as the winner would be a plausible argument that pretty much any student could replicate the experiment with school-level resources, if they took the time.

hooloovoo_zoo 11y ago
It's not trivial for a middle-schooler to make an incubator and I'm sure this girl got advice from microbiologists that would have taken her much longer to gather on her own. They had all the equipment she would need right there (sterile loop, agar plates, bunsen burner, lab grade ethanol). Plus, she probably had a bunch of equipment to make it easier (test tubes, tube shaker, that light she's using to examine the plates). So really she had a huge advantage over someone doing it on their own.
- tzs 11y ago
  > It's not trivial for a middle-schooler to make an incubator You don't actually need an incubator. Bacteria won't grow as fast at room temperature, but for the kind of experiment she was doing that should not be a problem. Nevertheless, it is actually pretty easy to make an incubator. Google for "homemade bacterial incubator" and you'll find many sites offering instructions. A typical design uses an aquarium tank, an incandescent lamp, a dimmer, and a thermometer. This should be well within the capability of any middle schooler. If the kid is up for doing a little programming, they could even toss in an Arduino and use a dimmer that can be controlled by it and automate keeping the temperature constant. The rest of the things needed, like Petri dishes, agar, and such are available from Amazon. There are even kits specifically aimed at people who want to grow bacteria for science fair projects.
  - jerf 11y ago
    Again, let me point out that this is more evidence of just how deeply ingrained the idea that Science is Something You Can't Do is ingrained in the culture. The physical requirements for science are easy to get. Specific experiments may be hard, but that's a characteristic of the experiments, not "science". The hard part is all in the attitude, learning to look for reasons why you are wrong instead of right. It is not in the physical gear and it's not in following a particular checkbox procedure thoughtlessly. (If I could, I'd remove "The Scientific Process" from the curriculum. It's a misnomer, literally starting from the word "The".) It is a grave failure of the education system that so many people come out of it thinking otherwise.
    - hooloovoo_zoo 11y ago
      You're not understanding the argument. Can a person with no instruction and a kazoo and a person with years of training and a Stradivarius both make music? Sure. But the second one is going to win the prize at the county fair.
      - triangleman 11y ago
        But the argument was that giving someone a kazoo was not enough to get them interested in music, you must also give them a violin and an instructor or they will lose interest.
function_seven 11y ago
> If I were running a science fair, a rock-solid requirement for me to judge something as the winner would be a plausible argument that pretty much any student could replicate the experiment with school-level resources, if they took the time. I thought the point of this article was that Veronica was specifically told she couldn't do this experiment as you describe: We also learned that this experiment was so potentially dangerous that Veronica would have to carry it out under the supervision of a trained expert, who would first have to submit a detailed risk assessment. That she wanted to do it the simple way, but the school said, "No, you're not allowed to. We're too afraid" I feel like I'm confusing something somewhere.
- jerf 11y ago
  I am being critical of that. The more I think through this, the stronger I come to the conclusion that this whole thing is of negative value, actively subverting the only goals that matter, and it might as well be shut down. This whole thing is a useless farce. As long as we're discussing privilege, the correct use of privilege would be to tell the school to just go to hell, run the experiment anyhow with the probably $10 of equipment you need, and submit something to the actual science fair as perfunctory as possible that will let you pass (leaning on your "privilege" to pass). And skip the visits to the microbiologists, because that proves the wrong point. You should be doing this on your own.