6 ms·

My family immigrated to the US from Russia back in 1998. We were below poverty-level poor. It was a real, tough struggle to stay afloat, but I never remembered

by sakopov 11y ago

My family immigrated to the US from Russia back in 1998. We were below poverty-level poor. It was a real, tough struggle to stay afloat, but I never remembered the sense of dread, desperation or depression. You were just too busy surviving. 18 years later and we have cars, houses, bank accounts, 401(k)s, IRAs, stocks and etc and I've never seen my family more miserable than I do now. I really had no idea what depression even was until we came here and I started struggling with it and finally went to a therapist after I couldn't take it any more. Sometimes when you don't have much you appreciate what you actually have and that's more than enough to live for.

jonahx 11y ago
Can you pinpoint what it is about US culture that creates the sense of dread and depression for you and your family?
- DougN7 11y ago
  IMHO it's that our goals are not for things that are fulfilling. The "American Dream" is a house, two cars in the garage, a couple of weeks of vacation, money in the bank, looking forward to retirement, clothes, iPhones, etc. None of that brings happiness. Sure, having the necessities is important. But there is very little happiness in a $50K car over the $10K car, but that extra $40K had real costs -- it took a lot of effort, stress, time, etc. So over and over we trade effort, stress, time, etc for things that don't bring happiness. After a while, we're just weary of life. I don't know what the solution is exactly. It definitely revolves around relationships with people. Helping them. Listening to them. Cooking for them. Raising them. That is where fulfillment and joy are found.
  - ASinclair 11y ago
    Take that $40k you would have spent on a car and invest it so you can retire earlier. This realization clicked for me when I heard about Financial Independence / Early Retirement. Don't buy fancy possessions, buy time. You can use that time to focus more on your relationships. Mr. Money Mustache comes off as over-the-top but his blog and others like it touch on these themes.
  - alexashka 11y ago
    It's individual, isn't it? You've mentioned people - it's about relating with them. The same with everything else - learning to relate to your body as it grows older, to people, to your work/hobbies of choice. The times are changing and the old modes of relating have been shaken up. This can be seen as a blessing or a curse - you definitely have to put in the extra effort to find your way nowadays. On the upside, there's more opportunity than ever to do so. Plus the internet, that helps :)
- davesque 11y ago
  Not the parent commenter, but I feel it's because our society doesn't value knowledge or scholarship. Whenever I get depressed, I feel it's because I want to spend time learning and discovering but instead I'm forced to race against all the other rats just to have a decent standard of living (and I'm not talking about $50k cars). There's no time or energy left to, say, study differential equations or chemistry or anything that would actually benefit humanity. Instead, I must devote myself to activities that essentially have no value.
  - jgrowl 11y ago
    I feel pretty similar. There's so much I want to explore and learn and I want to do it forever. If I'm stuck doing something I hate all week and then I'm too worn out to do anything in my down time I'd rather just not be here. :(
alexashka 11y ago
I've seen the same thing happen to a number of people. It's simply people who only know how to live as if they're on a combat mission. Once they come back home and there are no bullets buzzing by, they realize they don't know what they were fighting so hard for - they realize they don't know how to live a 'normal' life. My dad is like that - when he has free time, he does nothing with it. When he doesn't have free time - he wishfully speaks of winning the lottery and having free time. I have a theory that people who believe life is about strife and that everyone's out to get them - when they finally reach a place where there's no strife and no one out to get them, they still continue fortifying against enemies that never come. The ridiculousness of fighting invisible enemies causes depression. It's simply a call to open up, to see that there's more to life than fight or flight.
- md224 11y ago
  > when he has free time, he does nothing with it. Is he sad about this though or does he enjoy doing nothing?
  - alexashka 11y ago
    If you ask him, he says he's doing fine. If you look at how he lives his life - you'd see a different picture. That's the thing right, he's still deep enough in the fight-or-flight to think he's as happy as can be, given what a shitty world we're living in. Little does he know, he's not living in a shitty world, it's his beliefs that are the main barrier to living a different life.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
jackcosgrove 11y ago
Fortunately or unfortunately many more people will be confronted with this problem as affluence increases across the world. Once your material needs are met, a big motivation to press forward in your life is removed. There can also be some disappointment that your happiness level continually acclimates to wealth such that there is no big improvement in happiness, only fleeting thrills with each new purchase. Philosophy, identity, ethics, morality, and theology all take on practical significance once we have the luxury of reflection. I actually think debt-driven consumerism is a sort of comforting treadmill for a lot of people, as they never need to change their way of living if they are continually on the verge of material deprivation. On the whole this is a good thing though. Nothing forces you to be unhappy if your material needs are met. At that point it's all in your head.
unabst 11y ago
An external struggle can be empowering and meaningful. It's when the struggle is over and the dream is not all it was cracked up to be that we begin to struggle with ourselves. And that is depressing. Now we are enslaved and fighting the meaninglessness of our jobs, even if it's the same job that carried us. Money has nothing to do with happiness. The best part of wealth is wanting it. But the solution for this is actually not that difficult. Just keep going. Don't settle. And look to bigger and better things. Move your inner struggle to something external, and work hard on it. No one is suppose to be happy. That is, by definition, a sad state to be in.
- cpncrunch 11y ago
  >But the solution for this is actually not that difficult. Just keep going. Don't settle. And look to bigger and better things Or, find something that is more meaningful to you. That might be: working for a non-profit helping people, creating your own startup, etc. Keeping on the rat-race treadmill isn't necessarily a good solution for many people, as it can lead to further depression.
  - unabst 11y ago
    Absolutely. Also, for many immigrants, the American Dream can end at being working middle class with a house and enough money to pay for their child's tuition... except, being middle class in the US is no walk in the park.
- rezashirazian 11y ago
  Do you have a blog or twitter I can follow?
mineshaftgap 11y ago
So affluenza?

by sakopov 11y ago

jonahx 11y ago

Can you pinpoint what it is about US culture that creates the sense of dread and depression for you and your family?

DougN7 11y ago
IMHO it's that our goals are not for things that are fulfilling. The "American Dream" is a house, two cars in the garage, a couple of weeks of vacation, money in the bank, looking forward to retirement, clothes, iPhones, etc. None of that brings happiness. Sure, having the necessities is important. But there is very little happiness in a $50K car over the $10K car, but that extra $40K had real costs -- it took a lot of effort, stress, time, etc. So over and over we trade effort, stress, time, etc for things that don't bring happiness. After a while, we're just weary of life. I don't know what the solution is exactly. It definitely revolves around relationships with people. Helping them. Listening to them. Cooking for them. Raising them. That is where fulfillment and joy are found.
- ASinclair 11y ago
  Take that $40k you would have spent on a car and invest it so you can retire earlier. This realization clicked for me when I heard about Financial Independence / Early Retirement. Don't buy fancy possessions, buy time. You can use that time to focus more on your relationships. Mr. Money Mustache comes off as over-the-top but his blog and others like it touch on these themes.
- alexashka 11y ago
  It's individual, isn't it? You've mentioned people - it's about relating with them. The same with everything else - learning to relate to your body as it grows older, to people, to your work/hobbies of choice. The times are changing and the old modes of relating have been shaken up. This can be seen as a blessing or a curse - you definitely have to put in the extra effort to find your way nowadays. On the upside, there's more opportunity than ever to do so. Plus the internet, that helps :)
davesque 11y ago
Not the parent commenter, but I feel it's because our society doesn't value knowledge or scholarship. Whenever I get depressed, I feel it's because I want to spend time learning and discovering but instead I'm forced to race against all the other rats just to have a decent standard of living (and I'm not talking about $50k cars). There's no time or energy left to, say, study differential equations or chemistry or anything that would actually benefit humanity. Instead, I must devote myself to activities that essentially have no value.
- jgrowl 11y ago
  I feel pretty similar. There's so much I want to explore and learn and I want to do it forever. If I'm stuck doing something I hate all week and then I'm too worn out to do anything in my down time I'd rather just not be here. :(

alexashka 11y ago

I've seen the same thing happen to a number of people. It's simply people who only know how to live as if they're on a combat mission. Once they come back home and there are no bullets buzzing by, they realize they don't know what they were fighting so hard for - they realize they don't know how to live a 'normal' life. My dad is like that - when he has free time, he does nothing with it. When he doesn't have free time - he wishfully speaks of winning the lottery and having free time. I have a theory that people who believe life is about strife and that everyone's out to get them - when they finally reach a place where there's no strife and no one out to get them, they still continue fortifying against enemies that never come. The ridiculousness of fighting invisible enemies causes depression. It's simply a call to open up, to see that there's more to life than fight or flight.

md224 11y ago
> when he has free time, he does nothing with it. Is he sad about this though or does he enjoy doing nothing?
- alexashka 11y ago
  If you ask him, he says he's doing fine. If you look at how he lives his life - you'd see a different picture. That's the thing right, he's still deep enough in the fight-or-flight to think he's as happy as can be, given what a shitty world we're living in. Little does he know, he's not living in a shitty world, it's his beliefs that are the main barrier to living a different life.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

jackcosgrove 11y ago

Fortunately or unfortunately many more people will be confronted with this problem as affluence increases across the world. Once your material needs are met, a big motivation to press forward in your life is removed. There can also be some disappointment that your happiness level continually acclimates to wealth such that there is no big improvement in happiness, only fleeting thrills with each new purchase. Philosophy, identity, ethics, morality, and theology all take on practical significance once we have the luxury of reflection. I actually think debt-driven consumerism is a sort of comforting treadmill for a lot of people, as they never need to change their way of living if they are continually on the verge of material deprivation. On the whole this is a good thing though. Nothing forces you to be unhappy if your material needs are met. At that point it's all in your head.

unabst 11y ago

An external struggle can be empowering and meaningful. It's when the struggle is over and the dream is not all it was cracked up to be that we begin to struggle with ourselves. And that is depressing. Now we are enslaved and fighting the meaninglessness of our jobs, even if it's the same job that carried us. Money has nothing to do with happiness. The best part of wealth is wanting it. But the solution for this is actually not that difficult. Just keep going. Don't settle. And look to bigger and better things. Move your inner struggle to something external, and work hard on it. No one is suppose to be happy. That is, by definition, a sad state to be in.

cpncrunch 11y ago
>But the solution for this is actually not that difficult. Just keep going. Don't settle. And look to bigger and better things Or, find something that is more meaningful to you. That might be: working for a non-profit helping people, creating your own startup, etc. Keeping on the rat-race treadmill isn't necessarily a good solution for many people, as it can lead to further depression.
- unabst 11y ago
  Absolutely. Also, for many immigrants, the American Dream can end at being working middle class with a house and enough money to pay for their child's tuition... except, being middle class in the US is no walk in the park.
rezashirazian 11y ago
Do you have a blog or twitter I can follow?

mineshaftgap 11y ago

So affluenza?