5 ms·

Homelessness is actually something which should be addressed at the Federal (for Veterans) and State (for people who should receive medical help) levels, not th

by _pius 10y ago

Homelessness is actually something which should be addressed at the Federal (for Veterans) and State (for people who should receive medical help) levels, not the city. Citation needed.

Alex3917 10y ago
How is that not completely self-evident, given that most cities' response to the homeless is just to put them on buses to other cities.
- _pius 10y ago
  It's a pretty strong claim that a city should ignore a problem as severe and idiosyncratic as homelessness is in San Francisco. Of course there should be state and federal help, but it's nowhere near self-evident that San Francisco should simply sit on its hands.
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    If San Francisco improves its homelessness programs, LA will just bus even more homeless up to SF. If there were a federal stipend for each homeless person then that would no longer be an issue.
    - omegaham 10y ago
      It's a classic example of the prisoner's dilemma - the best outcome is gotten from everyone working to solve the problem, but it's in everyone's individual self-interest to fuck others over. As a suburban dweller in Oregon, I benefit enormously from Portland taking one for the team - Hillsboro and Beaverton's Finest can harass the homeless with a purpose, knowing that they will eventually get sick and tired of the mistreatment and move back to Portland. Thanks, Charlie![1] This is the entire origin of NIMBYism - "It'd be great if we could put in a methadone clinic / halfway house / homeless shelter / whatever to deal with our social problems, but what it actually means is that every other nearby region will just dump their own burdens on us." How do you fix it? Fuck if I know. [1]https://www.portlandoregon.gov/toolkit/article/562215 https://www.portlandoregon.gov/toolkit/article/562215
guimarin 10y ago
I did a very nice researched blog post on how to solve homelessness in SF and then decided not to publish it. The problem is that I'm very analytical and logical about solutions to social problems and most people, including the internet mobs, are not. It's very difficult to convince people that what they are doing in the short term is actually disastrous when the thing they are doing satisfies an emotional need they have now. The best we can do is make arguments that shift the burden of responsibility from one civic agency to another. To answer homelessness, we need to understand the responsibilities of our civic institutions, the limits of their theoretical jurisdictions and the underlying causes of homelessness. Ultimately, your view on who is responsible stems from your understanding of the purpose of different forms of government. My views start from a strict constitutionalist point and then evolve as various judicial outcomes have moved the goalposts.
- jasonmp85 10y ago
  > I did a very nice researched blog post on how to solve homelessness in SF and then decided not to publish it. The problem is that I'm very analytical and logical about solutions to social problems and most people, including the internet mobs, are not. Upvoted for being the most HN intro ever. Could only be more at home on Reddit.
- _pius 10y ago
  If it's that compelling, you ought to publish it. I'm sensitive to your viewpoint, but it's one thing to argue that state and federal institutions ought to take the lead on solving homelessness and quite another to suggest that the city ought to contribute nothing to the solution.
- zyxley 10y ago
  This comment is well-written, but doesn't seem to have any actual substantive content beyond "other people are wrong about this subject, because reasons".

by _pius 10y ago

Homelessness is actually something which should be addressed at the Federal (for Veterans) and State (for people who should receive medical help) levels, not the city. Citation needed.

Alex3917 10y ago

How is that not completely self-evident, given that most cities' response to the homeless is just to put them on buses to other cities.

_pius 10y ago
It's a pretty strong claim that a city should ignore a problem as severe and idiosyncratic as homelessness is in San Francisco. Of course there should be state and federal help, but it's nowhere near self-evident that San Francisco should simply sit on its hands.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  If San Francisco improves its homelessness programs, LA will just bus even more homeless up to SF. If there were a federal stipend for each homeless person then that would no longer be an issue.
  - omegaham 10y ago
    It's a classic example of the prisoner's dilemma - the best outcome is gotten from everyone working to solve the problem, but it's in everyone's individual self-interest to fuck others over. As a suburban dweller in Oregon, I benefit enormously from Portland taking one for the team - Hillsboro and Beaverton's Finest can harass the homeless with a purpose, knowing that they will eventually get sick and tired of the mistreatment and move back to Portland. Thanks, Charlie![1] This is the entire origin of NIMBYism - "It'd be great if we could put in a methadone clinic / halfway house / homeless shelter / whatever to deal with our social problems, but what it actually means is that every other nearby region will just dump their own burdens on us." How do you fix it? Fuck if I know. [1]https://www.portlandoregon.gov/toolkit/article/562215 https://www.portlandoregon.gov/toolkit/article/562215

guimarin 10y ago

I did a very nice researched blog post on how to solve homelessness in SF and then decided not to publish it. The problem is that I'm very analytical and logical about solutions to social problems and most people, including the internet mobs, are not. It's very difficult to convince people that what they are doing in the short term is actually disastrous when the thing they are doing satisfies an emotional need they have now. The best we can do is make arguments that shift the burden of responsibility from one civic agency to another. To answer homelessness, we need to understand the responsibilities of our civic institutions, the limits of their theoretical jurisdictions and the underlying causes of homelessness. Ultimately, your view on who is responsible stems from your understanding of the purpose of different forms of government. My views start from a strict constitutionalist point and then evolve as various judicial outcomes have moved the goalposts.

jasonmp85 10y ago
> I did a very nice researched blog post on how to solve homelessness in SF and then decided not to publish it. The problem is that I'm very analytical and logical about solutions to social problems and most people, including the internet mobs, are not. Upvoted for being the most HN intro ever. Could only be more at home on Reddit.
_pius 10y ago
If it's that compelling, you ought to publish it. I'm sensitive to your viewpoint, but it's one thing to argue that state and federal institutions ought to take the lead on solving homelessness and quite another to suggest that the city ought to contribute nothing to the solution.
zyxley 10y ago
This comment is well-written, but doesn't seem to have any actual substantive content beyond "other people are wrong about this subject, because reasons".