6 ms·

It is sometimes easy to forget to acknowledge the bubble we find ourselves in, in modern life. In a group of professionals where we are taught "the sky is the

It is sometimes easy to forget to acknowledge the bubble we find ourselves in, in modern life. In a group of professionals where we are taught "the sky is the limit!", it is important to remember that for the vast majority of our brothers and sisters on this earth, not only is the default difficulty of life set to hard but the deck is also stacked against them in every game.

davesque 10y ago
Even inside our bubble, the sky is not necessarily the limit.
nugget 10y ago
Happiness seems to derive from personal achievements. I fear we are headed towards a future wherein most people's basic needs of food, shelter, and entertainment are met but with relatively fewer opportunities to satisfy the need for accomplishment, at least by traditional definitions -- comfortable lives of quiet desperation.
- duaneb 10y ago
  I disagree. I think happiness mosty derives from companionship, eating well, and being in the sun. It is capitalism that drives the need for achievement without reason.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - danharaj 10y ago
    I think personal autonomy and collective responsibility are what would make me happiest. I'm lucky to have a job where i have a little bit of both, but so long as i have to devote most of my hours to pay rents upon rents and barter for my survival, i can't have much of both.
  - vixen99 10y ago
    You mean it does for you. I have no idea what works for other people. I like Shaw's dictum "We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than to consume wealth without producing it." and "A lifetime of happiness! No man alive could bear it: it would be hell on earth" Capitalism is merely a description of people's desire to trade goods and services with each other with as much freedom as is compatible with civil society. It didn't need to be invented; it was a natural occurrence. I do understand that some people would like to prevent that from happening.
  - monk_e_boy 10y ago
    They keep raising the age for retirement in the UK. One of the politicians said something along the lines of "Well what else would you do all day if you didn't have a job?" It scares me that people like that are in charge. Don't these people do things for enjoyment? Have hobbies? Have a social life? Most people on HN have aspirations, drive and ambition. Most people I know don't really care about working other than they wished they could work fewer hours. Most of us have lots of other interesting things to do in life...
    - nugget 10y ago
      The people I know with jobs that provide autonomy, respect, satisfaction of intellectual curiosity, socialization and decent compensation don't seem to want to retire at any age, and are usually forced out due to physical limitations. On the other hand the cubicle-dwelling worker bees start to lust after retirement in their 30s and 40s. I think this heavily depends on the job and is more of a reaction to specific employment environments rather than the concept of any professional work period.
      - pm90 10y ago
        Completely agree with this. It really depends on what kind of job you work in. Most software engineers in the US are probably very satisfied with what they work on. But I've seen many friends in other countries who hate programming, since they work for outsourcing firms that don't allow for much creativity/freedom.
        monk_e_boy 10y ago
        Every coding job I've had is beset with the owner saying "Well we're running out of money - anyone got any ideas on what to do about it?"
      - monk_e_boy 10y ago
        It's very very hard where I live to find a job that pays well, it's almost unheard of to get a silicon valley type job with 20% time and to be working on something amazing and cutting edge. A lot of people on HN seem to want to start or join a start up, work hard, sell it for lots of money and then use that money to enable freedom of choice (work/life balance.) We just don't get those sorts of jobs here, so hobbies and time in the pub is important.
- pasquinelli 10y ago
  i also disagree. personal achievements are what make a life sound good on paper, that's all. they're the things people might list off when trying to explain to themselves why the should be happy.
- nikkwong 10y ago
  The term 'achievement' will just be different. Right now artists feel personal self worth when they receive large amounts of acclaim for their work. This is true in any creative work. Us, working professionals, being freed from work, will seek to achieve other things--like building the next awesome x y or z--I think that will still give us the feeling of achievement we long for.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  Suicide is rising because basic needs aren't being met.
- throwastone 10y ago
  Happiness arises from either self-sacrifice for humanity, or through social connections (typically family). Rarely does one have the good fortune to find happiness through both means, as both of these typically require life devotion to achieve.
jonah 10y ago
Last year an acquaintance killed himself. He was a bright young software engineer at one of the hot companies in our (small) city. Had an active social life and close friends, was in a relationship of several years. From the outside it looked like he had things going for him. However he apparently also had a long history of depression. Just because we have so much more than other groups doesn't mean we have it made.
- taurath 10y ago
  The expectations we put upon ourselves or are put on us can be higher than what we can achieve - being moderately well off and intelligent in the richest country in the world makes it very easy to be a disappointment to yourself or others, despite whatever success you may feel - it will never ever be enough. This is keeping up with the joneses, just instead of the shiny new TV its a more ephemeral "life experiences" and success. Now, with the internet you're not even competing against your neighbor, you're competing against the world. Guess what - the world is always doing something more interesting, being more successful, having more fun than what you're doing. HN in particular exacerbates this issue. For some reading about successes is inspiring - for others it just shows them how far of a gap they have to go.
  - tpowell 10y ago
    This.
  - jonah 10y ago
    I can relate to this and have each reaction at different times.
  - neves 10y ago
    > the world is always doing something more interesting, being more successful, having more fun than what you're doing. HN in particular exacerbates this issue HN? Aren't you talking about Facebook? Here now, I formulate another hypotheses about this suicide level rising: Facebook is causing suicide! Everybody is happier there.
jernfrost 10y ago
But humans always judge themselves in context. If you are born in poverty and with no opportunity to make it you probably don't feel ashamed of yourself for not making it. It is different if you are given all sorts of opportunities in the form of a great upbringing, good school, loving parents and still you fail, at least in your own eyes.

davesque 10y ago

Even inside our bubble, the sky is not necessarily the limit.

nugget 10y ago

Happiness seems to derive from personal achievements. I fear we are headed towards a future wherein most people's basic needs of food, shelter, and entertainment are met but with relatively fewer opportunities to satisfy the need for accomplishment, at least by traditional definitions -- comfortable lives of quiet desperation.

duaneb 10y ago
I disagree. I think happiness mosty derives from companionship, eating well, and being in the sun. It is capitalism that drives the need for achievement without reason.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- danharaj 10y ago
  I think personal autonomy and collective responsibility are what would make me happiest. I'm lucky to have a job where i have a little bit of both, but so long as i have to devote most of my hours to pay rents upon rents and barter for my survival, i can't have much of both.
- vixen99 10y ago
  You mean it does for you. I have no idea what works for other people. I like Shaw's dictum "We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than to consume wealth without producing it." and "A lifetime of happiness! No man alive could bear it: it would be hell on earth" Capitalism is merely a description of people's desire to trade goods and services with each other with as much freedom as is compatible with civil society. It didn't need to be invented; it was a natural occurrence. I do understand that some people would like to prevent that from happening.
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  They keep raising the age for retirement in the UK. One of the politicians said something along the lines of "Well what else would you do all day if you didn't have a job?" It scares me that people like that are in charge. Don't these people do things for enjoyment? Have hobbies? Have a social life? Most people on HN have aspirations, drive and ambition. Most people I know don't really care about working other than they wished they could work fewer hours. Most of us have lots of other interesting things to do in life...
  - nugget 10y ago
    The people I know with jobs that provide autonomy, respect, satisfaction of intellectual curiosity, socialization and decent compensation don't seem to want to retire at any age, and are usually forced out due to physical limitations. On the other hand the cubicle-dwelling worker bees start to lust after retirement in their 30s and 40s. I think this heavily depends on the job and is more of a reaction to specific employment environments rather than the concept of any professional work period.
    - pm90 10y ago
      Completely agree with this. It really depends on what kind of job you work in. Most software engineers in the US are probably very satisfied with what they work on. But I've seen many friends in other countries who hate programming, since they work for outsourcing firms that don't allow for much creativity/freedom.
      - monk_e_boy 10y ago
        Every coding job I've had is beset with the owner saying "Well we're running out of money - anyone got any ideas on what to do about it?"
    - monk_e_boy 10y ago
      It's very very hard where I live to find a job that pays well, it's almost unheard of to get a silicon valley type job with 20% time and to be working on something amazing and cutting edge. A lot of people on HN seem to want to start or join a start up, work hard, sell it for lots of money and then use that money to enable freedom of choice (work/life balance.) We just don't get those sorts of jobs here, so hobbies and time in the pub is important.
pasquinelli 10y ago
i also disagree. personal achievements are what make a life sound good on paper, that's all. they're the things people might list off when trying to explain to themselves why the should be happy.
nikkwong 10y ago
The term 'achievement' will just be different. Right now artists feel personal self worth when they receive large amounts of acclaim for their work. This is true in any creative work. Us, working professionals, being freed from work, will seek to achieve other things--like building the next awesome x y or z--I think that will still give us the feeling of achievement we long for.
WalterSear 10y ago
Suicide is rising because basic needs aren't being met.
throwastone 10y ago
Happiness arises from either self-sacrifice for humanity, or through social connections (typically family). Rarely does one have the good fortune to find happiness through both means, as both of these typically require life devotion to achieve.

jonah 10y ago

Last year an acquaintance killed himself. He was a bright young software engineer at one of the hot companies in our (small) city. Had an active social life and close friends, was in a relationship of several years. From the outside it looked like he had things going for him. However he apparently also had a long history of depression. Just because we have so much more than other groups doesn't mean we have it made.

taurath 10y ago
The expectations we put upon ourselves or are put on us can be higher than what we can achieve - being moderately well off and intelligent in the richest country in the world makes it very easy to be a disappointment to yourself or others, despite whatever success you may feel - it will never ever be enough. This is keeping up with the joneses, just instead of the shiny new TV its a more ephemeral "life experiences" and success. Now, with the internet you're not even competing against your neighbor, you're competing against the world. Guess what - the world is always doing something more interesting, being more successful, having more fun than what you're doing. HN in particular exacerbates this issue. For some reading about successes is inspiring - for others it just shows them how far of a gap they have to go.
- tpowell 10y ago
  This.
- jonah 10y ago
  I can relate to this and have each reaction at different times.
- neves 10y ago
  > the world is always doing something more interesting, being more successful, having more fun than what you're doing. HN in particular exacerbates this issue HN? Aren't you talking about Facebook? Here now, I formulate another hypotheses about this suicide level rising: Facebook is causing suicide! Everybody is happier there.

jernfrost 10y ago

But humans always judge themselves in context. If you are born in poverty and with no opportunity to make it you probably don't feel ashamed of yourself for not making it. It is different if you are given all sorts of opportunities in the form of a great upbringing, good school, loving parents and still you fail, at least in your own eyes.