6 ms·

This seems oddly customer-hostile, which is something I've grown to expect from tech companies but not Amazon in specific. One can't help but wonder if the dam

This seems oddly customer-hostile, which is something I've grown to expect from tech companies but not Amazon in specific. One can't help but wonder if the damage this does to the brand outweighs the strategic gains through Prime subscriptions. After all, selection and availability is a huge part of Amazon's secret sauce to success, more so than customer service, shipping speed, or any other concern. If customers lose the ability to assume that they can get anything on Amazon, it's hugely damaging to the brand.

jeebow 11y ago
It echoes their decision to not carry the AppleTV, and to direct searches for AppleTVs to the FireTV. It's arrogant and customer-hostile. And ultimately, the result in my case was that I had a perfectly pleasant buying experience with Apple.
Fennhella 11y ago
Seems like a test to see how the practice goes. Really don't know what the hypothesis or plan is that would lead to good conclusions though.
gdulli 11y ago
I never got Prime before because the cost would amortize to an expensive shipping rate for me based on how many orders I make. And I didn't need the other Prime benefits. But their hard selling it to the point of hostility to non-Prime customers (higher prices) has added an element of stubbornness to my objection to it. Both Prime and ordering on Amazon in general.
- cbhl 11y ago
  Once a user has Prime, they tend to order more from Amazon.
  - gdulli 11y ago
    Well sure. If loyalty programs didn't overall favor the merchant, they wouldn't be offered.
- mrgoldenbrown 11y ago
  giving discounts for Prime members is not the same as being hostile to non prime customers.
mindslight 11y ago
Amazon is the only place I have seen blatant user-targeted dark patterns. "Order within the next hour to ship today". Four hours later: "order within the next 2 hours to ship today". Never mind the lowest-bid delivery acting like this is the first package they've ever handled (a phone call, really?), or email spam from checking a price. I believe a short time after a company acquires a reputation, customers develop a blind spot and you can count on reality being the opposite of that reputation.
- paulmd 11y ago
  I think their shipping windows are often just messed up. I've had the opposite situation too, where it says that an item must be ordered within the next 2 hours and then when I get to checkout the window is already passed for the day. I'm wondering whether the ship timer on the item page isn't quite accurate, and the one on the checkout goes through and does a warehouse-by-warehouse check to see where the nearest warehouse that has stock and also isn't closed is. As east-coast warehouses close you might get additional availability windows from west-coast warehouses, and their algorithm might not be doing an exhaustive search of when the last possible warehouse that has stock will close. I'm not saying that it isn't a dark pattern, but there are still some "incompetence" explanations before we need to jump to "malice".
  - mindslight 11y ago
    The delivery was on the west coast, so it's not like they could ship further for a better timezone. Furthermore I think the times were more spread out than I said - something like 3 hours later, the new shipping cutoff was 6 hours away. They also hiked the prices mid-session, and clearing state restored the previous ones. When an organization grows large, the distinction between deliberate malice and beneficial incompetence becomes less meaningful. Inferring an organizations broader culture can be informative, but the net incentives are the same. It definitely did not feel like a data consistency issue. And the "dynamic pricing" is obviously malicious, but it's the sort of machine-vs-human maliciousness we've been groomed to accept as "the free market". I don't have a particular grudge, and buy from them if they're the lowest bidder. I just don't understand what appears to be single-minded affinity for them.
incongruity 11y ago
This makes me want to not have Prime anymore. It seems so clear that it's only a matter of time until they start trying to extract even more money from the prime members as well. Why would I fool myself into thinking they'd treat us any better when they think we're semi-locked-in/less likely to leave because of the subscription.

jeebow 11y ago

It echoes their decision to not carry the AppleTV, and to direct searches for AppleTVs to the FireTV. It's arrogant and customer-hostile. And ultimately, the result in my case was that I had a perfectly pleasant buying experience with Apple.

Fennhella 11y ago

Seems like a test to see how the practice goes. Really don't know what the hypothesis or plan is that would lead to good conclusions though.

gdulli 11y ago

I never got Prime before because the cost would amortize to an expensive shipping rate for me based on how many orders I make. And I didn't need the other Prime benefits. But their hard selling it to the point of hostility to non-Prime customers (higher prices) has added an element of stubbornness to my objection to it. Both Prime and ordering on Amazon in general.

cbhl 11y ago
Once a user has Prime, they tend to order more from Amazon.
- gdulli 11y ago
  Well sure. If loyalty programs didn't overall favor the merchant, they wouldn't be offered.
mrgoldenbrown 11y ago
giving discounts for Prime members is not the same as being hostile to non prime customers.

mindslight 11y ago

Amazon is the only place I have seen blatant user-targeted dark patterns. "Order within the next hour to ship today". Four hours later: "order within the next 2 hours to ship today". Never mind the lowest-bid delivery acting like this is the first package they've ever handled (a phone call, really?), or email spam from checking a price. I believe a short time after a company acquires a reputation, customers develop a blind spot and you can count on reality being the opposite of that reputation.

paulmd 11y ago
I think their shipping windows are often just messed up. I've had the opposite situation too, where it says that an item must be ordered within the next 2 hours and then when I get to checkout the window is already passed for the day. I'm wondering whether the ship timer on the item page isn't quite accurate, and the one on the checkout goes through and does a warehouse-by-warehouse check to see where the nearest warehouse that has stock and also isn't closed is. As east-coast warehouses close you might get additional availability windows from west-coast warehouses, and their algorithm might not be doing an exhaustive search of when the last possible warehouse that has stock will close. I'm not saying that it isn't a dark pattern, but there are still some "incompetence" explanations before we need to jump to "malice".
- mindslight 11y ago
  The delivery was on the west coast, so it's not like they could ship further for a better timezone. Furthermore I think the times were more spread out than I said - something like 3 hours later, the new shipping cutoff was 6 hours away. They also hiked the prices mid-session, and clearing state restored the previous ones. When an organization grows large, the distinction between deliberate malice and beneficial incompetence becomes less meaningful. Inferring an organizations broader culture can be informative, but the net incentives are the same. It definitely did not feel like a data consistency issue. And the "dynamic pricing" is obviously malicious, but it's the sort of machine-vs-human maliciousness we've been groomed to accept as "the free market". I don't have a particular grudge, and buy from them if they're the lowest bidder. I just don't understand what appears to be single-minded affinity for them.

incongruity 11y ago

This makes me want to not have Prime anymore. It seems so clear that it's only a matter of time until they start trying to extract even more money from the prime members as well. Why would I fool myself into thinking they'd treat us any better when they think we're semi-locked-in/less likely to leave because of the subscription.