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> The distinction is whose fault is that, the lazy Python3 core dev team or the lazy userbase? I agree that Python core devs should have not made such breaking

> The distinction is whose fault is that, the lazy Python3 core dev team or the lazy userbase? I agree that Python core devs should have not made such breaking changes, And hindsight is 20/20, even for them. I also am a bit annoyed that they've been pretty stubborn about adding additional compatibility layers between the versions. (If six (maintained by a core dev) can help with compatibility, why can't the standard library have those shims too? :) I also like Go's approach to unicode better than Python 3's approach. "harassing" the core devs may have been helpful in back in 2008-2012, however, at this point it's a little late to start complaining. I doubt it will help at all. > Python2's conservatism is starting to be seen as an asset I totally agree. It's an unfortunate problem. > is Python3 inevitable? Yes. It's only a matter of time. - Django is planning on removing Python 2 support from master in January. - Nearly all popular libraries are compatible or have compatible forks. - Large python projects, like OpenStack are putting in the work to be Python 3 compatible. http://blogs.rdoproject.org/7894/status-of-python-3-in-openstack-mitaka http://blogs.rdoproject.org/7894/status-of-python-3-in-opens... - Ubuntu and Fedora now ship without /usr/bin/python available by default. RHEL/CentOS 8 may very well do the same. - Debian has plans of removing Python 2 completely from it's repository not long after PSF drops support.

BuckRogers 11y ago
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. On Django though (or any library that intends to drop 2.x support), I feel if they truly go through with it, they'll be in for a shock. It will more than likely hurt them more than it hurts Python2 (I also don't understand the obsession with people wanting to kill or hurt Python2). People and companies may be more likely to start new projects in Flask or another alternative, maybe even fork Django which would be a disaster for them. But as of today, Django's roadmap has the LTS release that supports 2.x as an unknown EOL. So it won't be anytime soon. Overall I tend to agree that Python3 will eventually take over. That wasn't what I was arguing and I never said otherwise in my posts. My problem is with the harassment over Python2 folks to port and all the associated nonsense. That's the part that is more counterproductive than anything. "A matter of time" is a really bad last leg to stand on as well, because time has an awfully broad range. :) As far as the other points, I have doubts about the impact of Ubuntu or others defaulting to Python3. That won't stop me from building for PyPy, I can say that at least. In general I feel that I'm on a similar page to your stance though. I do use Python3, and have since the 3.0 release in testing alone. For someone who has tried every release and found performance issues and bugs galore, it's a testament that I (and others) haven't given up completely. I think many have.

BuckRogers 11y ago

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. On Django though (or any library that intends to drop 2.x support), I feel if they truly go through with it, they'll be in for a shock. It will more than likely hurt them more than it hurts Python2 (I also don't understand the obsession with people wanting to kill or hurt Python2). People and companies may be more likely to start new projects in Flask or another alternative, maybe even fork Django which would be a disaster for them. But as of today, Django's roadmap has the LTS release that supports 2.x as an unknown EOL. So it won't be anytime soon. Overall I tend to agree that Python3 will eventually take over. That wasn't what I was arguing and I never said otherwise in my posts. My problem is with the harassment over Python2 folks to port and all the associated nonsense. That's the part that is more counterproductive than anything. "A matter of time" is a really bad last leg to stand on as well, because time has an awfully broad range. :) As far as the other points, I have doubts about the impact of Ubuntu or others defaulting to Python3. That won't stop me from building for PyPy, I can say that at least. In general I feel that I'm on a similar page to your stance though. I do use Python3, and have since the 3.0 release in testing alone. For someone who has tried every release and found performance issues and bugs galore, it's a testament that I (and others) haven't given up completely. I think many have.