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There is a fantastic Adam Curtis documentary about Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism called Bitter Lake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) https://en.

by dismal2 10y ago

There is a fantastic Adam Curtis documentary about Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism called Bitter Lake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) Due to various issues, you'll just have to find a way to watch it... (BBC iplayer blocked in us, copyright issues when posted on youtube, etc, etc, etc)

kough 10y ago
I feel like the problem with Adam Curtis' work is... well, Adam Curtis. It's very easy to dismiss his entire body of work as "conspiracy theory", because he only writes about these sorts of topics. And it does him and his work a disservice, because of course there is a lot of truth in what he writes and produces. As with anything, there is also a lot of unsubstantiated narrative, but for anyone who's on the fence I would highly recommend watching Bitter Lake. Even if you think Curtis is a crank, the film is beautiful and the score is fantastic (Burial, Four Tet, etc.) and you might find some of the facts interesting.
- basch 10y ago
  I really like Adam Curtis from an entertainment perspective (similar to charlie brooker/blackmirror), he feels like real life twilight zone. If people haven't read Adam Curtis's THEN NOW, it's well worth the time - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-30a0-9a0a-3ff76e8bfe58 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-... "HAPPIDROME - Part One" is great too - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/5a7b18b5-0ec3-3d3e-a307-54820a7c6a59 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/5a7b18b5-0ec3-... His conspiracy theories remind me more of Alan Moore's definition. "Yes, there is a conspiracy, indeed there are a great number of conspiracies, all tripping each other up ... the main thing that I learned about conspiracy theories is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy, or the grey aliens, or the twelve-foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control, the truth is far more frightening; no-one is in control, the world is rudderless."
- clay_to_n 10y ago
  I agree. I highly recommend Bitter Lake, because it's mostly history. But the ending and the "thesis" (as I interpreted it) isn't quite convincing for me.
randomsearch 10y ago
I thought Bitter Lake was an amazing documentary. Can anyone recommend related or similar work of the same quality?
- jazzido 10y ago
  "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace", an amazing 3-part documentary about computers, society, the shortcomings of systems-thinking. Also by Adam Curtis.
- UK-AL 10y ago
  All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
- iheartmemcache 10y ago
  "The Century of Self" is probably his seminal work. Remember that Adam Curtis is .. well.. Adam Curtis. His story is going to have a spin (as anyone's will - but it's important to be cognizant of that; when one reads Zinn's Peoples History of the US, I tell them to read "The Origin of Politics" just to get another take from an equally well-educated, articulate writer). I try really hard to get both sides of the story from internally consistent sources. It's easy for me to immediately dismiss most modern neo-con sources, since their (amazingly effective) strategy is mostly based on emotional scaremongering with internally inconsistent arguments. I'm not their target demographic and they know it. They're not idiots (in fact, re: education - Fox News has a surprisingly large percentage of hosts with degrees from well-revered instituions; which makes it all the more ironic when one points out that nice blonde lady denigrating the "liberal East coast elites" trying to emotionally connect with the midwestern housewife, herself is Harvard educated) but there definitely is another side to the story and it's important to at least hear their argument before you dismiss it.
  - randomsearch 10y ago
    This is such a great comment! Could I ask you for further reading recommendations, please?
  - randomsearch 10y ago
justsaysmthng 10y ago
Here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji -- Watched it a couple of weeks ago and as always was deeply impressed by Curtis' work. His style is so unique in that he approaches the subject matter from a totally unexpected angle, connecting seemingly unrelated events and concepts to create a unique and original painting of history. Highly recommended.
samstave 10y ago
I just watched that - wow. That was really interesting and super depressing. Afghanistan is hell on earth. I felt so bad for any children I saw in that. And that guy who was torturing people and lied about being in the military and he was basically doing it for fun! What the fuck!?

by dismal2 10y ago

kough 10y ago

I feel like the problem with Adam Curtis' work is... well, Adam Curtis. It's very easy to dismiss his entire body of work as "conspiracy theory", because he only writes about these sorts of topics. And it does him and his work a disservice, because of course there is a lot of truth in what he writes and produces. As with anything, there is also a lot of unsubstantiated narrative, but for anyone who's on the fence I would highly recommend watching Bitter Lake. Even if you think Curtis is a crank, the film is beautiful and the score is fantastic (Burial, Four Tet, etc.) and you might find some of the facts interesting.

basch 10y ago
I really like Adam Curtis from an entertainment perspective (similar to charlie brooker/blackmirror), he feels like real life twilight zone. If people haven't read Adam Curtis's THEN NOW, it's well worth the time - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-30a0-9a0a-3ff76e8bfe58 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-... "HAPPIDROME - Part One" is great too - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/5a7b18b5-0ec3-3d3e-a307-54820a7c6a59 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/5a7b18b5-0ec3-... His conspiracy theories remind me more of Alan Moore's definition. "Yes, there is a conspiracy, indeed there are a great number of conspiracies, all tripping each other up ... the main thing that I learned about conspiracy theories is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy, or the grey aliens, or the twelve-foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control, the truth is far more frightening; no-one is in control, the world is rudderless."
clay_to_n 10y ago
I agree. I highly recommend Bitter Lake, because it's mostly history. But the ending and the "thesis" (as I interpreted it) isn't quite convincing for me.

randomsearch 10y ago

I thought Bitter Lake was an amazing documentary. Can anyone recommend related or similar work of the same quality?

jazzido 10y ago
"All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace", an amazing 3-part documentary about computers, society, the shortcomings of systems-thinking. Also by Adam Curtis.
UK-AL 10y ago
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
iheartmemcache 10y ago
"The Century of Self" is probably his seminal work. Remember that Adam Curtis is .. well.. Adam Curtis. His story is going to have a spin (as anyone's will - but it's important to be cognizant of that; when one reads Zinn's Peoples History of the US, I tell them to read "The Origin of Politics" just to get another take from an equally well-educated, articulate writer). I try really hard to get both sides of the story from internally consistent sources. It's easy for me to immediately dismiss most modern neo-con sources, since their (amazingly effective) strategy is mostly based on emotional scaremongering with internally inconsistent arguments. I'm not their target demographic and they know it. They're not idiots (in fact, re: education - Fox News has a surprisingly large percentage of hosts with degrees from well-revered instituions; which makes it all the more ironic when one points out that nice blonde lady denigrating the "liberal East coast elites" trying to emotionally connect with the midwestern housewife, herself is Harvard educated) but there definitely is another side to the story and it's important to at least hear their argument before you dismiss it.
- randomsearch 10y ago
  This is such a great comment! Could I ask you for further reading recommendations, please?
- randomsearch 10y ago

justsaysmthng 10y ago

Here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji -- Watched it a couple of weeks ago and as always was deeply impressed by Curtis' work. His style is so unique in that he approaches the subject matter from a totally unexpected angle, connecting seemingly unrelated events and concepts to create a unique and original painting of history. Highly recommended.

samstave 10y ago

I just watched that - wow. That was really interesting and super depressing. Afghanistan is hell on earth. I felt so bad for any children I saw in that. And that guy who was torturing people and lied about being in the military and he was basically doing it for fun! What the fuck!?