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I do know that you have to be very careful about infants and veganism, but for adults, less so. About the consistency in worldview, that's something that I as

I do know that you have to be very careful about infants and veganism, but for adults, less so. About the consistency in worldview, that's something that I as a vegan have to struggle with. The truth is that I cannot completely eliminate animal usage from my lifestyle as long as I live in human society. It's either direct (I eat animal-based products or I buy leather) or indirect (I board a bus that has antifreeze, which is an animal-based product). So each vegetarian/vegan has to draw the line somewhere, and that's a personal choice. I choose to draw the line at avoiding eating animal products and avoiding buying animal products (leather and wool). Edge cases like infants generate some interesting discussion, but I think the real action is in the typical case. For the typical American, it's hard to defend the eating of meat.

epochwolf 17y ago
For the typical American, it's hard to defend the eating of meat. Not to start a fight but, being one of those typical Americans (and a decently smart one), I don't have a problem defending the eating of meat. My reasoning is quite simple but I know many people won't agree with me. I don't see animals as being worthy of the same treatment as humans. Not that I can condone putting animals through unnecessary suffering. But, I define unnecessary suffering is anything beyond what commonly happens to animals in nature. I think veal fattening pen are unethical. Holding animals in tightly enclosed spaces for their entire lives is unethical. Killing a cow with an ax isn't provided you're killing the cow for an ethical reason such as using the animal for food or soap. If you don't use the animal you kill it's no different than burning a forest without a purpose.
- techiferous 17y ago
  "Not to start a fight but," I really welcome these honest and sincere comments of yours and find them refreshing. I actually agree with most of what you're saying here. I take things a little further than you, but not much. Let me explain: "I don't see animals as being worthy of the same treatment as humans." -- I agree with this. In some ways animals are similar to humans, but in other ways they are different. "I define unnecessary suffering is anything beyond what commonly happens to animals in nature." -- I personally don't quite agree with this, but concede that this can easily be defended philosophically. "I think veal fattening pen are unethical. Holding animals in tightly enclosed spaces for their entire lives is unethical." -- Me too. Note that more than 99% of meat is from factory-farmed animals, so to eat meat is to vote with your dollars for this sort of abusive animal treatment. (Reference: http://www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming http://www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming) "Killing a cow with an ax isn't provided you're killing the cow for an ethical reason such as using the animal for food or soap." -- I'll concede this point, but I must point out that the majority of suffering and death that we put animals through is for unnecessary reasons. Case in point: I've been a vegan for five years and it has not interfered with my ability to live an enjoyable, productive life. Note that the typical American eats too much meat (from a health standpoint) and as a result is dying earlier. So for most of the meat consumption in the U.S., the act of eating meat harms both the animal and the consumer of the meat. (Cutting meat completely from your diet will reduce your cancer and heart disease risk.)

epochwolf 17y ago

For the typical American, it's hard to defend the eating of meat. Not to start a fight but, being one of those typical Americans (and a decently smart one), I don't have a problem defending the eating of meat. My reasoning is quite simple but I know many people won't agree with me. I don't see animals as being worthy of the same treatment as humans. Not that I can condone putting animals through unnecessary suffering. But, I define unnecessary suffering is anything beyond what commonly happens to animals in nature. I think veal fattening pen are unethical. Holding animals in tightly enclosed spaces for their entire lives is unethical. Killing a cow with an ax isn't provided you're killing the cow for an ethical reason such as using the animal for food or soap. If you don't use the animal you kill it's no different than burning a forest without a purpose.

techiferous 17y ago
"Not to start a fight but," I really welcome these honest and sincere comments of yours and find them refreshing. I actually agree with most of what you're saying here. I take things a little further than you, but not much. Let me explain: "I don't see animals as being worthy of the same treatment as humans." -- I agree with this. In some ways animals are similar to humans, but in other ways they are different. "I define unnecessary suffering is anything beyond what commonly happens to animals in nature." -- I personally don't quite agree with this, but concede that this can easily be defended philosophically. "I think veal fattening pen are unethical. Holding animals in tightly enclosed spaces for their entire lives is unethical." -- Me too. Note that more than 99% of meat is from factory-farmed animals, so to eat meat is to vote with your dollars for this sort of abusive animal treatment. (Reference: http://www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming http://www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming) "Killing a cow with an ax isn't provided you're killing the cow for an ethical reason such as using the animal for food or soap." -- I'll concede this point, but I must point out that the majority of suffering and death that we put animals through is for unnecessary reasons. Case in point: I've been a vegan for five years and it has not interfered with my ability to live an enjoyable, productive life. Note that the typical American eats too much meat (from a health standpoint) and as a result is dying earlier. So for most of the meat consumption in the U.S., the act of eating meat harms both the animal and the consumer of the meat. (Cutting meat completely from your diet will reduce your cancer and heart disease risk.)