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Yeah, that is definitely not the US perspective on it. Here you have to pay to go to school, unless you are one of the lucky few who gets some sort of research

Yeah, that is definitely not the US perspective on it. Here you have to pay to go to school, unless you are one of the lucky few who gets some sort of research grant, or teaching position. In which case you get to live on basically minimum wage, and travel is a extremely rare occurrence. You have now spent 10+ years getting yourself into debt, rather than making any money beyond what it takes to survive, and your job prospects aren't greatly increased. Its not that great a deal here.

teekert 11y ago
Wow 10+ years. Here the University receives a sum of money when you get your PhD, that motivates them quite a lot to get you to finish. Most people finish within 4-5 years in my experience. Getting a PhD is like a job here, I didn't know it actually cost money in the US, in that case I can certainly understand people doubting the added value. What I got out was about the value of taking control, my prof gave me quite some freedom. But here also sometimes PhD students are used a measurement slaves by some micro-managing UD (assistant Professor). And also here sometimes people quit but it is more because they are lost without progress after 2 years or so. In the US: Market forces seem to diminish the value of a PhD. In the Netherlands: Market is ignored by subsidies from the government. No idea what is better, let it die or keep the PhD system alive artificially. I don't know, the whole system feels a bit archaic to me. I always tell people that IQ and level of education are hardly related. I think it is difficult to fail a PhD here at least it doesn't happen often, especially when you have a professor that says exactly what you should do, and then you do it. I never met a dumb PhD student though.
- Bedon292 11y ago
  I should clarify, I meant its 10+ years total in school 4 for Bachelors, 2-3 for Masters, and 4+ for the PhD.
- pvaldes 11y ago
  My experience was practically a total nightmare. Would not recommend it.
alkonaut 11y ago
In the US it's considered studying, in e.g. The Nordic countries it's an employment. You get a decent (but lower than in industry) salary, and for that you are expected to teach some percentage of your time, meaning the PhD will take at least one more year than it would in the US. Still, a fair proposition I'd say, compared to paying even more for PhD studies after you paid for a degree.
rhino369 11y ago
Other than for profit scam schools, the average phd candidate isn't paying anything for their degree. You are right that they are basically getting minimium wage. But that's the trade off for pursuing academia. Nobody is forcing this on them. These are people with college degrees not paupers. It's really not all that different from people living frugal so they can their startup. If Phd candidates don't like the system they can go find real jobs like everyone else.

teekert 11y ago

Wow 10+ years. Here the University receives a sum of money when you get your PhD, that motivates them quite a lot to get you to finish. Most people finish within 4-5 years in my experience. Getting a PhD is like a job here, I didn't know it actually cost money in the US, in that case I can certainly understand people doubting the added value. What I got out was about the value of taking control, my prof gave me quite some freedom. But here also sometimes PhD students are used a measurement slaves by some micro-managing UD (assistant Professor). And also here sometimes people quit but it is more because they are lost without progress after 2 years or so. In the US: Market forces seem to diminish the value of a PhD. In the Netherlands: Market is ignored by subsidies from the government. No idea what is better, let it die or keep the PhD system alive artificially. I don't know, the whole system feels a bit archaic to me. I always tell people that IQ and level of education are hardly related. I think it is difficult to fail a PhD here at least it doesn't happen often, especially when you have a professor that says exactly what you should do, and then you do it. I never met a dumb PhD student though.

Bedon292 11y ago
I should clarify, I meant its 10+ years total in school 4 for Bachelors, 2-3 for Masters, and 4+ for the PhD.
pvaldes 11y ago
My experience was practically a total nightmare. Would not recommend it.

alkonaut 11y ago

In the US it's considered studying, in e.g. The Nordic countries it's an employment. You get a decent (but lower than in industry) salary, and for that you are expected to teach some percentage of your time, meaning the PhD will take at least one more year than it would in the US. Still, a fair proposition I'd say, compared to paying even more for PhD studies after you paid for a degree.

rhino369 11y ago

Other than for profit scam schools, the average phd candidate isn't paying anything for their degree. You are right that they are basically getting minimium wage. But that's the trade off for pursuing academia. Nobody is forcing this on them. These are people with college degrees not paupers. It's really not all that different from people living frugal so they can their startup. If Phd candidates don't like the system they can go find real jobs like everyone else.