5 ms·

Does the gov't even have any profit centers outside the IRS?

dfranke 17y ago
Graft.
camccann 17y ago
The Postal Service and the Patent and Trademark office have had net positive cash flow some years. Not for the last few years though, I think.
- xenophanes 17y ago
  The post office couldn't make a profit if it didn't have laws supporting it. They have terrible customer service, take sundays off, various other problems, UPS and Fed Ex would destroy them. Of course the Patent and Trademark office is law supported too.
  - tierack 17y ago
    Perhaps FexEx and UPS could "destroy" the USPS if they didn't have to worry about guaranteeing relatively quick delivery for envelopes from Kirby, WY to Boone, TN for the same inexpensive price as deliveries within a few blocks. The USPS may have laws supporting it, but don't we have expectations of it that far exceed whatever private business could hope to accomplish for profit? (And, naively, aren't there many private businesses that couldn't make a profit without laws supporting them?)
    - randallsquared 17y ago
      aren't there many private businesses that couldn't make a profit without laws supporting them? In a sense, no, by definition.
      - 3pt14159 17y ago
        Sure there are. Take General Dynamics, for example. A private company that sells billions of dollars of military hardware to the government.
      - tierack 17y ago
        I was thinking about legal monopolies or companies barely profitable by virtue of tax credits/breaks or companies that don't have to follow certain costly regulations for some (legal) reason. Would those factors actually make them "not really profitable" or "not actually private businesses"? Or is this where the "In a sense" part of your reply breaks down? (These are legitimate questions, but I'm afraid it might sound snarky.)
        camccann 17y ago
        I'm pretty sure he meant "not actually private", in a sense of something like "any organization dependent on the government for survival can be regarded, to some extent, as being effectively a branch of the government". Of course, by that standard, I'm not sure how many "truly private" companies exist, since it seems to rule out (among others) any company that relies on intellectual property law, including trademark enforcement to prevent bootlegs and cheap imitations.
    - xenophanes 17y ago
      What's good about that guarantee? Remember TANSTAAFL. Any time there is a Governmental "free lunch" that most people don't want or use, it's just favoring a few people at the expense of everyone else.
  - hristov 17y ago
    UPS and Fed Ex would never deliver letters for 40 cents.
derobert 17y ago
Yes, the Federal Reserve turns over a fair bit of seignorage to the treasury. The latest number I see is $31.7 billion in 2008. http://federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/RptCongress/budgetrev09/default.htm#fn3r http://federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/RptCongress/budgetrev09/... Of course, that $31.7 billion is mostly interest on treasuries, so…
_delirium 17y ago
It's not really supposed to, is it? There are plenty of parts that could make a profit, but we prefer the government providing stuff for free instead. For example, if the federal government were allowed to hold copyrights, it could make good money licensing all sorts of military photographs (WW2 photography alone would be worth quite a bit). And the rate for interstate highway travel that the market would bear is probably higher than $0.00/mile. Instead photographs are public domain, and highways are free.
hristov 17y ago
Yes. The Patent Office.

Graft.

The Postal Service and the Patent and Trademark office have had net positive cash flow some years. Not for the last few years though, I think.

xenophanes 17y ago
The post office couldn't make a profit if it didn't have laws supporting it. They have terrible customer service, take sundays off, various other problems, UPS and Fed Ex would destroy them. Of course the Patent and Trademark office is law supported too.
- tierack 17y ago
  Perhaps FexEx and UPS could "destroy" the USPS if they didn't have to worry about guaranteeing relatively quick delivery for envelopes from Kirby, WY to Boone, TN for the same inexpensive price as deliveries within a few blocks. The USPS may have laws supporting it, but don't we have expectations of it that far exceed whatever private business could hope to accomplish for profit? (And, naively, aren't there many private businesses that couldn't make a profit without laws supporting them?)
  - randallsquared 17y ago
    aren't there many private businesses that couldn't make a profit without laws supporting them? In a sense, no, by definition.
    - 3pt14159 17y ago
      Sure there are. Take General Dynamics, for example. A private company that sells billions of dollars of military hardware to the government.
    - tierack 17y ago
      I was thinking about legal monopolies or companies barely profitable by virtue of tax credits/breaks or companies that don't have to follow certain costly regulations for some (legal) reason. Would those factors actually make them "not really profitable" or "not actually private businesses"? Or is this where the "In a sense" part of your reply breaks down? (These are legitimate questions, but I'm afraid it might sound snarky.)
      - camccann 17y ago
        I'm pretty sure he meant "not actually private", in a sense of something like "any organization dependent on the government for survival can be regarded, to some extent, as being effectively a branch of the government". Of course, by that standard, I'm not sure how many "truly private" companies exist, since it seems to rule out (among others) any company that relies on intellectual property law, including trademark enforcement to prevent bootlegs and cheap imitations.
  - xenophanes 17y ago
    What's good about that guarantee? Remember TANSTAAFL. Any time there is a Governmental "free lunch" that most people don't want or use, it's just favoring a few people at the expense of everyone else.
- hristov 17y ago
  UPS and Fed Ex would never deliver letters for 40 cents.

derobert 17y ago

Yes, the Federal Reserve turns over a fair bit of seignorage to the treasury. The latest number I see is $31.7 billion in 2008. http://federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/RptCongress/budgetrev09/default.htm#fn3r http://federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/RptCongress/budgetrev09/... Of course, that $31.7 billion is mostly interest on treasuries, so…

_delirium 17y ago

It's not really supposed to, is it? There are plenty of parts that could make a profit, but we prefer the government providing stuff for free instead. For example, if the federal government were allowed to hold copyrights, it could make good money licensing all sorts of military photographs (WW2 photography alone would be worth quite a bit). And the rate for interstate highway travel that the market would bear is probably higher than $0.00/mile. Instead photographs are public domain, and highways are free.

hristov 17y ago

Yes. The Patent Office.