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I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of

by exDM69 11y ago

I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of people living norther than I do. Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you've never experienced the northern spring where each day is 10+ minutes longer than the previous, you'll never understand it. It just fucks up your mind in ways that are hard to describe. My kitchen psychology thinks the high suicide rates in the spring may be related to the fact that people around you start to get more positive and active (some too much so) but if you're suffering from a bad depression, seeing that around you will make it worse. It's not just suicides that peak. It also affects breakup/divorce rates as well as forming new relationships. It probably affects professional careers too, but I don't know if there are stats about it. The long, dark winters and the rapid change that follows brings out some very primal sides. That being said, I'd recommend travel to the extreme latitudes around the solstices, both of them. side note: we have about 15 hour long days at the moment. It's still pretty dark at night but I can't wait for the summer when you can see the sunset and sunrise at the same time if you look to the north at around midnight... it's magical.

blazespin 11y ago
It's coldest about 30 minutes into dawn. Spring suicides could just because the new amount of daylight has yet to have enough impact to reverse the depression of the dark winter.
Arnt 11y ago
When you're deep blue in the winter, people tell you that the sun will come back. When you still feel blue in the spring things sort of fall apart. I wish I could move back north, even so.
warfangle 11y ago
When people are really depressed, they don't kill themselves. Because they have no energy to. Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in.
- ekianjo 11y ago
  > Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in. Not sure if you can really generalize this much. There are several studies studying the effect of antidepressants on suicide rates, and it's true that some of them seem to lead to more suicides but it's far from being something that you can categorize like that. I'd also wager there are lots of suicides that could be avoided if people got the medical attention they needed on time. It's not all black and white.
  - warfangle 11y ago
    They often lead to more suicides _at the beginning of treatment_, but less suicides in the long run. That's why hospitalization is often necessary when beginning treatment for depression when that depression includes suicidal ideation, but is not necessary for the duration of treatment.
  - Devthrowaway80 11y ago
    Warfangle is correct, I was warned specifically about this when I started treatment. When you go on an SSRI, your fatigue lifts before your mood does, which can lead to a few dangerous weeks.
    - Kristine1975 11y ago
      Can confirm, "my" SNRI's package insert (it is about one meter long, in small print) warns that when starting treatment there's an increased risk of suicidal thoughts/suicide, especially in people under 25. Fun fact: The package insert also states: "It isn't completely clear how antidepressants work, but they can help increase the Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels in the brain." Very confidence-inspiring :-/
      - ekianjo 11y ago
        > Fun fact: The package insert also states: "It isn't completely clear how antidepressants work, but they can help increase the Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels in the brain." Very confidence-inspiring :-/ Well at least it's fair. The chemistry of the brain is still very poorly understood. Note that many drugs were discovered to have effects before we knew HOW to explain why they work.
warfangle 11y ago
When people are really depressed, they don't kill themselves. Because they have no energy to. Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in.
grecy 11y ago
I live at 60 degrees also, and I agree with everything you said. The cold didn't bother me at all, even though I'm from a hot country originally. I rode my bike to work every day of the year in fact, even in -45C. I loved it. It's like being on another planet in it's beauty and differences. Like you said, it was always in late winter/early spring that I'd loose it a little. I'd grab a burger and beer after work, then somehow two weeks would go by where I had done that every day, with lots and lots of beer, and I wouldn't really know how it happened. The key for my was to always, always get outside at midday when the sun it out and get it on your face. Even on the coldest days I always go for a walk along the river to marvel at the beauty and get the sun on my face - that's a luxury of not being further North, the sun actually comes up and I can have it directly on my face. And to get moving after work. Eat dinner then go snowshowing, x-country skiiing or whatever for at least a couple of hours. It's nice to get into this habit before winter really hits in Oct/Nov, then keep it up. It's amazing to be out there in -45C with a headlamp, the stars and of course it's how you get to see the Northern lights more often than not. Of course, in summer, I get home from work, eat dinner then go mntn biking/hiking/fishing/whatever until 2am in the beaming sunshine. I call it two days for the price of one.
- rconti 11y ago
  Whitehorse, perhaps? I've read that Whitehorse has the highest rate of bicycle commuters. I can't fathom how that's possible, given the winters, and the fact that it's not particularly dense -- yeah, things aren't THAT far apart, but far enough that bicycling doesn't seem like the first choice in the winter.
  - grecy 11y ago
    Good guess! Whitehorse is a mecca for people that are seriously into outdoor pursuits, so it makes sense that so many people want to ride to work. When you live there, the winter is not a reason to not go outside. On the contrary, it often makes going outside easier because all the lakes and rivers are frozen, so you can explore very far and wide which you can't do in the summer due to lack of roads. So riding to work in the winter makes perfect sense :) Also, downtown is fairly small. From the farthest reaches of "downtown" to anywhere you'd be working is a max of 45 minutes on a bike. Most commutes are more like 15-30 mins. Though lots of people live 30-45 minutes by car out of town, which is not doable in the winter. Riding on the AK highway in winter is not an option, the plowing is not good enough.
mabbo 11y ago
I actually have the opposite reaction to the spring. When I get 5+ minutes extra per day of light, I'm ecstatic, happy all the time. October and November are always brutal on me. I'm only at 43-ish these days, but I've lived as far north as Edinburgh, Scotland (56ish). I had to explicitly get outside every day at lunch to get as much sun as I could. Seasonal Affective Disorder is apparently a real thing.
- cylinder 11y ago
  Living in NY, which is not even that far north, I always peak in feeling great in October and then I just completely go to shit after the clocks change in Nov. This week, it has been beautiful everyday, and I've been outside a lot as a result, and I feel amazing! We are still at the mercy of the sun. Growing up in TX, though, I never really gave this kind of stuff much of a thought. The sun and humidity are so oppressive, that you spend half the year wishing it would go away, and winters are finally relaxing and time to be outdoors. This year, however, with the results of El Niño, it has been incredibly mild fall and winter and quite sunny. I did not as a result suffer any seasonal depression. Many others who do get SAD every year have reported the same.
jensen123 11y ago
> Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you don't take vitamin D pills or consume (lots of) cod liver oil, then your vitamin D levels will be lowest in the spring. If I remember correctly, at around 60 degrees north, you have to wait until the end of April until you get vitamin D from the sun.
- dpatrick86 11y ago
  Interesting. Are there any studies on this lowest-in-spring observation?
  - tomsthumb 11y ago
    Rhonda Patrick talks about vitamin D quite bit (she is awesome). I'm coming up empty on seasonal relationships but it would surprise me if she hasn't mentioned something about it. It does make sense though. If you're not taking supplements and the sun isn't direct enough to make any on your own until late April then late spring would be the longest point in the year you've gone without proper sunlight.
    - henrylahore 11y ago
      Quite a few diseases vary with season of birht if you do not supplement http://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=3225 http://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=3225
    - dpatrick86 11y ago
      Good point!
tikhonj 11y ago
I especially recommend visiting St. Petersburg during the summer. It's on that same latitude so you get nights that don't go dark and the whole city celebrates. They're called "White Nights" and there's a "White Night Festival"[1] but really, the fascinating part is how the whole city (or at least the city center) comes alive during those nights. It's absolutely beautiful. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nights_Festival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nights_Festival

by exDM69 11y ago

blazespin 11y ago

It's coldest about 30 minutes into dawn. Spring suicides could just because the new amount of daylight has yet to have enough impact to reverse the depression of the dark winter.

Arnt 11y ago

When you're deep blue in the winter, people tell you that the sun will come back. When you still feel blue in the spring things sort of fall apart. I wish I could move back north, even so.

warfangle 11y ago

When people are really depressed, they don't kill themselves. Because they have no energy to. Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in.

ekianjo 11y ago
> Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in. Not sure if you can really generalize this much. There are several studies studying the effect of antidepressants on suicide rates, and it's true that some of them seem to lead to more suicides but it's far from being something that you can categorize like that. I'd also wager there are lots of suicides that could be avoided if people got the medical attention they needed on time. It's not all black and white.
- warfangle 11y ago
  They often lead to more suicides _at the beginning of treatment_, but less suicides in the long run. That's why hospitalization is often necessary when beginning treatment for depression when that depression includes suicidal ideation, but is not necessary for the duration of treatment.
- Devthrowaway80 11y ago
  Warfangle is correct, I was warned specifically about this when I started treatment. When you go on an SSRI, your fatigue lifts before your mood does, which can lead to a few dangerous weeks.
  - Kristine1975 11y ago
    Can confirm, "my" SNRI's package insert (it is about one meter long, in small print) warns that when starting treatment there's an increased risk of suicidal thoughts/suicide, especially in people under 25. Fun fact: The package insert also states: "It isn't completely clear how antidepressants work, but they can help increase the Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels in the brain." Very confidence-inspiring :-/
    - ekianjo 11y ago
      > Fun fact: The package insert also states: "It isn't completely clear how antidepressants work, but they can help increase the Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels in the brain." Very confidence-inspiring :-/ Well at least it's fair. The chemistry of the brain is still very poorly understood. Note that many drugs were discovered to have effects before we knew HOW to explain why they work.

warfangle 11y ago

grecy 11y ago

I live at 60 degrees also, and I agree with everything you said. The cold didn't bother me at all, even though I'm from a hot country originally. I rode my bike to work every day of the year in fact, even in -45C. I loved it. It's like being on another planet in it's beauty and differences. Like you said, it was always in late winter/early spring that I'd loose it a little. I'd grab a burger and beer after work, then somehow two weeks would go by where I had done that every day, with lots and lots of beer, and I wouldn't really know how it happened. The key for my was to always, always get outside at midday when the sun it out and get it on your face. Even on the coldest days I always go for a walk along the river to marvel at the beauty and get the sun on my face - that's a luxury of not being further North, the sun actually comes up and I can have it directly on my face. And to get moving after work. Eat dinner then go snowshowing, x-country skiiing or whatever for at least a couple of hours. It's nice to get into this habit before winter really hits in Oct/Nov, then keep it up. It's amazing to be out there in -45C with a headlamp, the stars and of course it's how you get to see the Northern lights more often than not. Of course, in summer, I get home from work, eat dinner then go mntn biking/hiking/fishing/whatever until 2am in the beaming sunshine. I call it two days for the price of one.

rconti 11y ago
Whitehorse, perhaps? I've read that Whitehorse has the highest rate of bicycle commuters. I can't fathom how that's possible, given the winters, and the fact that it's not particularly dense -- yeah, things aren't THAT far apart, but far enough that bicycling doesn't seem like the first choice in the winter.
- grecy 11y ago
  Good guess! Whitehorse is a mecca for people that are seriously into outdoor pursuits, so it makes sense that so many people want to ride to work. When you live there, the winter is not a reason to not go outside. On the contrary, it often makes going outside easier because all the lakes and rivers are frozen, so you can explore very far and wide which you can't do in the summer due to lack of roads. So riding to work in the winter makes perfect sense :) Also, downtown is fairly small. From the farthest reaches of "downtown" to anywhere you'd be working is a max of 45 minutes on a bike. Most commutes are more like 15-30 mins. Though lots of people live 30-45 minutes by car out of town, which is not doable in the winter. Riding on the AK highway in winter is not an option, the plowing is not good enough.

mabbo 11y ago

I actually have the opposite reaction to the spring. When I get 5+ minutes extra per day of light, I'm ecstatic, happy all the time. October and November are always brutal on me. I'm only at 43-ish these days, but I've lived as far north as Edinburgh, Scotland (56ish). I had to explicitly get outside every day at lunch to get as much sun as I could. Seasonal Affective Disorder is apparently a real thing.

cylinder 11y ago
Living in NY, which is not even that far north, I always peak in feeling great in October and then I just completely go to shit after the clocks change in Nov. This week, it has been beautiful everyday, and I've been outside a lot as a result, and I feel amazing! We are still at the mercy of the sun. Growing up in TX, though, I never really gave this kind of stuff much of a thought. The sun and humidity are so oppressive, that you spend half the year wishing it would go away, and winters are finally relaxing and time to be outdoors. This year, however, with the results of El Niño, it has been incredibly mild fall and winter and quite sunny. I did not as a result suffer any seasonal depression. Many others who do get SAD every year have reported the same.

jensen123 11y ago

> Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you don't take vitamin D pills or consume (lots of) cod liver oil, then your vitamin D levels will be lowest in the spring. If I remember correctly, at around 60 degrees north, you have to wait until the end of April until you get vitamin D from the sun.

dpatrick86 11y ago
Interesting. Are there any studies on this lowest-in-spring observation?
- tomsthumb 11y ago
  Rhonda Patrick talks about vitamin D quite bit (she is awesome). I'm coming up empty on seasonal relationships but it would surprise me if she hasn't mentioned something about it. It does make sense though. If you're not taking supplements and the sun isn't direct enough to make any on your own until late April then late spring would be the longest point in the year you've gone without proper sunlight.
  - henrylahore 11y ago
    Quite a few diseases vary with season of birht if you do not supplement http://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=3225 http://vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=3225
  - dpatrick86 11y ago
    Good point!

tikhonj 11y ago

I especially recommend visiting St. Petersburg during the summer. It's on that same latitude so you get nights that don't go dark and the whole city celebrates. They're called "White Nights" and there's a "White Night Festival"[1] but really, the fascinating part is how the whole city (or at least the city center) comes alive during those nights. It's absolutely beautiful. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nights_Festival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nights_Festival