4 ms·

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoyi

by Aaargh20318 11y ago

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.

coldtea 11y ago
>Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is. If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.
- Aaargh20318 11y ago
  > If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? I'm interested in the mechanism, not some anecdotes about one or two specific people. I like complicated systems and how they work, this interest me because it could give me additional insight in how the human machine works. I don't need to be interested traveling to be interested in how a plane stays in the air or how the engine of a car works.
ethanbond 11y ago
Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think. Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.
- Aaargh20318 11y ago
  I'm simply suggesting they structure the story different. Begin with a short abstract in which you present your conclusions. Then follow up with how you arrived at that conclusion for people who want to go in-depth. Basically the way scientific papers are organised.
  - dirktheman 11y ago
    tl;dr: Astronaut battles AI with hidden agenda, defeats AI, gets abducted by aliens. "The drought had lasted now for ten million years, and the reign of the terrible lizards had long since ended..." Not every story should be structured as a scientific document.
    - Aaargh20318 11y ago
      No, fiction shouldn't, because the whole point of fiction is to entertain. The point of news it not to entertain but to inform.
      - scott_s 11y ago
        One way to be informed is to learn facts. Another way is to learn about how other people live, so that you can empathize with them, gain perspective on the lives they live, and then are better able to understand the context for those other facts you learn.
      - JackFr 11y ago
        Fiction does more than entertain, the best fiction exercises our humanity in ways which might not be possible with nonfiction. Nonfiction need not read like crop reports or scientific papers. The best analogy is to photography. Photography is by its nature nonfiction, and yet we recognize that all photographs are not equal. Some are beautiful, some are moving, some are dry and clinical. They all inform, but some do more.
rntz 11y ago
From the article: > Like native people all around the Arctic — and all over the world — Greenlanders were seeing the deadly effects of rapid modernization and unprecedented cultural interference. [...] Between 1970 and 1980, the suicide rate there quadrupled to about seven times the U.S. rate (it's still about six times higher). > Her observations are in line with something psychologists and sociologists think is fundamental to the causes of suicide in Greenland. When communities are disrupted, like Kangeq was, families start to collapse. There's an increase in alcoholism, child neglect and physical abuse, all of which are risk factors for suicide. Later, people who didn't get the love and support they needed as children find it difficult to cope with the routine heartbreak of dating, and a breakup becomes the final insult in a lifetime of hurt.
- pm90 11y ago
  > find it difficult to cope with the routine heartbreak of dating If there was one thing that my conservative culture had taught me better, It would be this. Even knowing this doesn't make the process any easier although there is some comfort in knowing that many others face this situation as well.
dirktheman 11y ago
To be fair, the title doesn't say it will tell you why the suicide rate in Greenland is so high... Fact is, it isn't completely clear why the rate is so high. Rapid modernization, decades of Danish control, a disappearing culture/way of life and lack of mental health facilities can all be named as factors. Sorry were annoyed and feel like you've wasted your time on a well written, well researched human interest piece. And yes, sometimes you need to know just the bare facts. But do you really have to know the reasons behind the high suicide rate in Greenland? Or were you triggered by the headline? In that case a human interest story conveys the message a lot better than just the numbers. To me, Hacker News is about triggering curiosity about things that were previously unknown by me. Stories like these remind me that there is a world beyond choosing if I want soy milk or regular milk in my mochachino. But hey, let me save you a couple of minutes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland#Reasons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland#Reasons
- thaumasiotes 11y ago
  Suicidal ideation (as well as completed suicide, of course) is known to be higher in the indigenous peoples of Canada than in the white population. I have seen it advanced that the eskimo tradition of suicide by walking out into the wilderness if you're a burden on your family probably has something to do with this. This is mildly in conflict with the finding that there's more suicide in Greenland in summer than in winter, but worth considering.
  - dagw 11y ago
    This is mildly in conflict with the finding that there's more suicide in Greenland in summer than in winter, but worth considering. I've seen some theories that people in general don't commit suicide while under active hardship, but after the hardship lets up a bit and they have time to reflect on it. Also relative hardship is far more important than absolute hardship. During the winter everybody is a bit miserable and under the weather so you don't stick out so much. When the summer comes and everybody but you cheer up the contrast becomes a lot more noticeable.
    - 11y ago
nekopa 11y ago
Here you go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland I suggest you just preface all your searches with wikipedia, then you won't have to hear a story. That way, nothing needs to be stopped, and people like me who enjoy some context and humanity with their facts can continue to find excellent stories like this.
- Fnoug 11y ago
  It's not about advocating human stories vs facts. It's about the goals of writing a title. The title should communicate what the reader is to expect when opening the piece.
Lio 11y ago
I agree with you on this. I would say that it's a poor editorial decision not to include a leading paragraph that addresses the headline. Usually I find this is the difference between a good broadsheet newspaper and a provincial one. It's fine to write in an expansive, non-tabloid way in the main body but you must address the headline in the first paragraph.

coldtea 11y ago

>Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is. If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.

Aaargh20318 11y ago
> If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? I'm interested in the mechanism, not some anecdotes about one or two specific people. I like complicated systems and how they work, this interest me because it could give me additional insight in how the human machine works. I don't need to be interested traveling to be interested in how a plane stays in the air or how the engine of a car works.

ethanbond 11y ago

Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think. Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.

Aaargh20318 11y ago
I'm simply suggesting they structure the story different. Begin with a short abstract in which you present your conclusions. Then follow up with how you arrived at that conclusion for people who want to go in-depth. Basically the way scientific papers are organised.
- dirktheman 11y ago
  tl;dr: Astronaut battles AI with hidden agenda, defeats AI, gets abducted by aliens. "The drought had lasted now for ten million years, and the reign of the terrible lizards had long since ended..." Not every story should be structured as a scientific document.
  - Aaargh20318 11y ago
    No, fiction shouldn't, because the whole point of fiction is to entertain. The point of news it not to entertain but to inform.
    - scott_s 11y ago
      One way to be informed is to learn facts. Another way is to learn about how other people live, so that you can empathize with them, gain perspective on the lives they live, and then are better able to understand the context for those other facts you learn.
    - JackFr 11y ago
      Fiction does more than entertain, the best fiction exercises our humanity in ways which might not be possible with nonfiction. Nonfiction need not read like crop reports or scientific papers. The best analogy is to photography. Photography is by its nature nonfiction, and yet we recognize that all photographs are not equal. Some are beautiful, some are moving, some are dry and clinical. They all inform, but some do more.

rntz 11y ago

From the article: > Like native people all around the Arctic — and all over the world — Greenlanders were seeing the deadly effects of rapid modernization and unprecedented cultural interference. [...] Between 1970 and 1980, the suicide rate there quadrupled to about seven times the U.S. rate (it's still about six times higher). > Her observations are in line with something psychologists and sociologists think is fundamental to the causes of suicide in Greenland. When communities are disrupted, like Kangeq was, families start to collapse. There's an increase in alcoholism, child neglect and physical abuse, all of which are risk factors for suicide. Later, people who didn't get the love and support they needed as children find it difficult to cope with the routine heartbreak of dating, and a breakup becomes the final insult in a lifetime of hurt.

pm90 11y ago
> find it difficult to cope with the routine heartbreak of dating If there was one thing that my conservative culture had taught me better, It would be this. Even knowing this doesn't make the process any easier although there is some comfort in knowing that many others face this situation as well.

dirktheman 11y ago

To be fair, the title doesn't say it will tell you why the suicide rate in Greenland is so high... Fact is, it isn't completely clear why the rate is so high. Rapid modernization, decades of Danish control, a disappearing culture/way of life and lack of mental health facilities can all be named as factors. Sorry were annoyed and feel like you've wasted your time on a well written, well researched human interest piece. And yes, sometimes you need to know just the bare facts. But do you really have to know the reasons behind the high suicide rate in Greenland? Or were you triggered by the headline? In that case a human interest story conveys the message a lot better than just the numbers. To me, Hacker News is about triggering curiosity about things that were previously unknown by me. Stories like these remind me that there is a world beyond choosing if I want soy milk or regular milk in my mochachino. But hey, let me save you a couple of minutes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland#Reasons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland#Reasons

thaumasiotes 11y ago
Suicidal ideation (as well as completed suicide, of course) is known to be higher in the indigenous peoples of Canada than in the white population. I have seen it advanced that the eskimo tradition of suicide by walking out into the wilderness if you're a burden on your family probably has something to do with this. This is mildly in conflict with the finding that there's more suicide in Greenland in summer than in winter, but worth considering.
- dagw 11y ago
  This is mildly in conflict with the finding that there's more suicide in Greenland in summer than in winter, but worth considering. I've seen some theories that people in general don't commit suicide while under active hardship, but after the hardship lets up a bit and they have time to reflect on it. Also relative hardship is far more important than absolute hardship. During the winter everybody is a bit miserable and under the weather so you don't stick out so much. When the summer comes and everybody but you cheer up the contrast becomes a lot more noticeable.
  - 11y ago

nekopa 11y ago

Here you go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland I suggest you just preface all your searches with wikipedia, then you won't have to hear a story. That way, nothing needs to be stopped, and people like me who enjoy some context and humanity with their facts can continue to find excellent stories like this.

Fnoug 11y ago
It's not about advocating human stories vs facts. It's about the goals of writing a title. The title should communicate what the reader is to expect when opening the piece.

Lio 11y ago

I agree with you on this. I would say that it's a poor editorial decision not to include a leading paragraph that addresses the headline. Usually I find this is the difference between a good broadsheet newspaper and a provincial one. It's fine to write in an expansive, non-tabloid way in the main body but you must address the headline in the first paragraph.