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Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that make

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway.

trhway 11y ago
didn't know about Lithuania and googled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - the lowest rate was in 1990, on breaking up from USSR and getting independence back.
- tim333 11y ago
  I'm curious why it's so bad there. It neighbours Poland which has less than a quarter the rate. Cultural maybe?
  - trhway 11y ago
    (personal impression, not a professional sociologist obviously :) Poland is more capitalistic/enterpreneural in spirit and they have strong nationalistic drive (the Poland state had been destroyed and Polish land&people divided between neighbors several times for pretty prolonged periods during recent several centuries, yet still the country gets back every time it gets a chance) - as 1990 in Lithuania statistics suggests nationalistic drive can be a pretty strong factor too. It was the place that revolted in 1980 against the socialism and USSR control. Lithuania are much more calmer in all respects (i have a part of extended family there). If you look at statistics by age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - it seems to be a typical mid-life crisis in a society without active vertical mobility.
- kbart 11y ago
  I'm from Lithuania and suicide is really a big problem here. It's being discussed much why it's happening in media as well as professionally, but there's no clear consent. Some key reasons that comes up most often: 1) Society changes. After breakup with USSR in 1990, all collective farms were dismantled and majority of industry closed or restructured what caused a lot of people lose jobs and forced to change profession. This was hard/impossible for some, especially older people, who were used to work the same job for years or even the whole life. In first years it was partly offset by the excitement of independence, but as years went by, excitement faded away and problems remained. Even bigger impact was the mental change that you are responsible for your and your family well being and there's no longer government that takes care of every aspect of life. Some people still can't wrap their minds about this fact and blame government everything. Also, there are very few jobs in smaller towns/villages, so those who could, already fled to cities or abroad and those who couldn't are doomed to poverty which leads to the second reason. 2) Alcoholism. Lithuanians, as most northlings, are overly serious (if you smiled to strangers, locals around usually look suspiciously or even aggressively) and prone to depression what combined witch financial difficulties many faces (caused by 1) often leads seeking relief in alcohol that worsens depression even further. 3) Identity crisis (not discussed very often, mostly my thoughts). We are still in transitional state, where no longer belong to east, but not yet fully converted to western way of life. We lack self-dependence, motivation, initiative and risk taking attributes common for democratic westerners and keep looking back for somebody to lead and hold hand (the same strong leader cult as in Russia today). We are like a teen who fled his parent's home -- don't know where to go and what to do. These problems aren't unique and many post soviet countries have similar issues, though some simply cope with them better than others. Anyway I'm optimistic, because progress can be clearly seen in many areas (Lithuania has one of the fastest growing economies in EU) and many young people are doing better than their parents.
tim333 11y ago
That said I find it much more cheerful going off somewhere sunny when it's Jan/Feb in London. Maybe they could lay on some charter flights to Bahia or somewhere.
- dirktheman 11y ago
  I live in The Netherlands. One week of sunshine in February is by far the best cure for the winter blues. It gives you something to look forward to in the darkest days, and when you return it's almost springtime. Well, psychologically at least...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
masklinn 11y ago
> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway. South Korea as well, its latitude roughly matches the northern half of Tunisia (Seoul's latitude is 37°33′N, Tunisia's northernmost city of Bizerte is at 37°16′N) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania
- trhway 11y ago
  South Korea is definitely not about weather : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age "The main cause of South Korea's relatively high suicide rate is due to the elderly's substantially high suicide rate, which is significantly dragging up the otherwise relatively low average rate. This is due to poor elderly people killing themselves not to be a burden on their families,..."
Aaargh20318 11y ago
> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is. If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.
  - Aaargh20318 11y ago
    > If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? I'm interested in the mechanism, not some anecdotes about one or two specific people. I like complicated systems and how they work, this interest me because it could give me additional insight in how the human machine works. I don't need to be interested traveling to be interested in how a plane stays in the air or how the engine of a car works.
- ethanbond 11y ago
  Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think. Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.
  - Aaargh20318 11y ago
ekianjo 11y ago
> And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. That was obvious from the get go. Whoever even claimed this in the first place just did not bother to check facts for more than 5 minutes.
jlg23 11y ago
> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) Guyana and Suriname have severe problems with their post-colonial status, very low income contrasted by wealth shown by western mining companies and their employees, a very big problem with alcoholism and very bad perspectives for most (soldiers turning barkeepers because they don't get paid, police extorting people in lieu of a living wage etc). I think the same reasons the author listed for Greenland might apply to those countries too.

trhway 11y ago

didn't know about Lithuania and googled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - the lowest rate was in 1990, on breaking up from USSR and getting independence back.

tim333 11y ago
I'm curious why it's so bad there. It neighbours Poland which has less than a quarter the rate. Cultural maybe?
- trhway 11y ago
  (personal impression, not a professional sociologist obviously :) Poland is more capitalistic/enterpreneural in spirit and they have strong nationalistic drive (the Poland state had been destroyed and Polish land&people divided between neighbors several times for pretty prolonged periods during recent several centuries, yet still the country gets back every time it gets a chance) - as 1990 in Lithuania statistics suggests nationalistic drive can be a pretty strong factor too. It was the place that revolted in 1980 against the socialism and USSR control. Lithuania are much more calmer in all respects (i have a part of extended family there). If you look at statistics by age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - it seems to be a typical mid-life crisis in a society without active vertical mobility.
kbart 11y ago
I'm from Lithuania and suicide is really a big problem here. It's being discussed much why it's happening in media as well as professionally, but there's no clear consent. Some key reasons that comes up most often: 1) Society changes. After breakup with USSR in 1990, all collective farms were dismantled and majority of industry closed or restructured what caused a lot of people lose jobs and forced to change profession. This was hard/impossible for some, especially older people, who were used to work the same job for years or even the whole life. In first years it was partly offset by the excitement of independence, but as years went by, excitement faded away and problems remained. Even bigger impact was the mental change that you are responsible for your and your family well being and there's no longer government that takes care of every aspect of life. Some people still can't wrap their minds about this fact and blame government everything. Also, there are very few jobs in smaller towns/villages, so those who could, already fled to cities or abroad and those who couldn't are doomed to poverty which leads to the second reason. 2) Alcoholism. Lithuanians, as most northlings, are overly serious (if you smiled to strangers, locals around usually look suspiciously or even aggressively) and prone to depression what combined witch financial difficulties many faces (caused by 1) often leads seeking relief in alcohol that worsens depression even further. 3) Identity crisis (not discussed very often, mostly my thoughts). We are still in transitional state, where no longer belong to east, but not yet fully converted to western way of life. We lack self-dependence, motivation, initiative and risk taking attributes common for democratic westerners and keep looking back for somebody to lead and hold hand (the same strong leader cult as in Russia today). We are like a teen who fled his parent's home -- don't know where to go and what to do. These problems aren't unique and many post soviet countries have similar issues, though some simply cope with them better than others. Anyway I'm optimistic, because progress can be clearly seen in many areas (Lithuania has one of the fastest growing economies in EU) and many young people are doing better than their parents.

tim333 11y ago

That said I find it much more cheerful going off somewhere sunny when it's Jan/Feb in London. Maybe they could lay on some charter flights to Bahia or somewhere.

dirktheman 11y ago
I live in The Netherlands. One week of sunshine in February is by far the best cure for the winter blues. It gives you something to look forward to in the darkest days, and when you return it's almost springtime. Well, psychologically at least...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

masklinn 11y ago

> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway. South Korea as well, its latitude roughly matches the northern half of Tunisia (Seoul's latitude is 37°33′N, Tunisia's northernmost city of Bizerte is at 37°16′N) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania

trhway 11y ago
South Korea is definitely not about weather : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age "The main cause of South Korea's relatively high suicide rate is due to the elderly's substantially high suicide rate, which is significantly dragging up the otherwise relatively low average rate. This is due to poor elderly people killing themselves not to be a burden on their families,..."

Aaargh20318 11y ago

> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.

coldtea 11y ago
>Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is. If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.
- Aaargh20318 11y ago
  > If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? I'm interested in the mechanism, not some anecdotes about one or two specific people. I like complicated systems and how they work, this interest me because it could give me additional insight in how the human machine works. I don't need to be interested traveling to be interested in how a plane stays in the air or how the engine of a car works.
ethanbond 11y ago
Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think. Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.
- Aaargh20318 11y ago

ekianjo 11y ago

> And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. That was obvious from the get go. Whoever even claimed this in the first place just did not bother to check facts for more than 5 minutes.

jlg23 11y ago

> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) Guyana and Suriname have severe problems with their post-colonial status, very low income contrasted by wealth shown by western mining companies and their employees, a very big problem with alcoholism and very bad perspectives for most (soldiers turning barkeepers because they don't get paid, police extorting people in lieu of a living wage etc). I think the same reasons the author listed for Greenland might apply to those countries too.