4 ms·

Just for the record, all of that could be done better with HTML5.

by jeff18 17y ago

tomlin 17y ago
The record of what? Talk is cheap. Let's see some examples.
- jeff18 17y ago
  I meant that there is nothing in those examples that couldn't be achieved using HTML5. Basically, the effects could be achieved using HTML5 video for the background, canvas for the particle effects, and either your choice of canvas or CSS transformations / animations for the movement of the character pieces. It certainly wouldn't work for the vast majority of visitors, as most people are still using Internet Explorer (hence why I can't produce any examples of AAA HTML5 sites), but there is nothing shown there that is inherently Flash only, technologically speaking.
  - tomlin 17y ago
    I need to see HTML5+JS perform as well as Flash doing multiple things. Sorry, sliding PNGs across the page with jQuery isn't really the same. If we're gonna go into debate about Flash vs. HTML5, I am gonna need to see more than simple equalizers and canvas bar charts. Show me http://mycanvas.landsend.com http://mycanvas.landsend.com or http://www.myspace.com/fanvideo http://www.myspace.com/fanvideo in HTML5. I wanna see this level of complexity without a hindrance on development time, performance or scope. Enough with the double talk.
    - jeff18 17y ago
      jQuery and PNGs are actually not HTML5. I'd recommend checking out the CSS animation / transitions modules at the W3C to get familiarized. Safari's implementation is actually hardware accelerated. Also, check out the SVG animation module. See the ADC for a pretty nice selection of examples which do actually rival Flash websites, often without even using JavaScript.
      - tomlin 17y ago
        jQuery and PNGs are actually not HTML5. I understand they aren't the same. jQuery is often cited as a "Flash killer" of sorts, just covering the bases. See the ADC for a pretty nice selection of examples which do actually rival Flash websites, often without even using JavaScript. Right. Except that they don't always. I'm not saying that Flash should be what we use for creating innovative content. Standards are slow. Video tag? We're just starting to see this implemented? After how many years has video been a demand on the web? Flash will always do what the browser can't handle native. New demands for VOIP, Web Conferencing, h/w accelerated 3D will keep Flash alive as well an IDE (with mind crushing bugs, mind you) that brings everything together. And if it doesn't live as a file format, that would be alright, too. There is a different experience with creating content within the Flash IDE. If Flash eventually outputted in native standards, that would be a great thing.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        jeff18 17y ago
        If that was your point, you could have just said "Microsoft doesn't support HTML5, end of story." I wasn't trying to argue that HTML5 has the same adoption as Flash, simply that HTML5 is technically capable of creating those "state-of-the-art" websites cited in the first post. FYI, HTML5 also addresses hardware accelerated 3D in the WebGL module. ;)
        tomlin 17y ago
        How I love the "The Flash-hater side-step". If you read, I wasn't talking about adoption rates (although that is also an issue worth noting). You might have noticed that I mentioned that Flash brought about new innovations to the web. Most notably, how video is handled. Try to look forward and see beyond HTML5, just as you seem to have no problem doing with HTML5 adoption rates.
        jeff18 17y ago

Just for the record, all of that could be done better with HTML5.

by jeff18 17y ago

Just for the record, all of that could be done better with HTML5.

tomlin 17y ago

The record of what? Talk is cheap. Let's see some examples.

jeff18 17y ago
I meant that there is nothing in those examples that couldn't be achieved using HTML5. Basically, the effects could be achieved using HTML5 video for the background, canvas for the particle effects, and either your choice of canvas or CSS transformations / animations for the movement of the character pieces. It certainly wouldn't work for the vast majority of visitors, as most people are still using Internet Explorer (hence why I can't produce any examples of AAA HTML5 sites), but there is nothing shown there that is inherently Flash only, technologically speaking.
- tomlin 17y ago
  I need to see HTML5+JS perform as well as Flash doing multiple things. Sorry, sliding PNGs across the page with jQuery isn't really the same. If we're gonna go into debate about Flash vs. HTML5, I am gonna need to see more than simple equalizers and canvas bar charts. Show me http://mycanvas.landsend.com http://mycanvas.landsend.com or http://www.myspace.com/fanvideo http://www.myspace.com/fanvideo in HTML5. I wanna see this level of complexity without a hindrance on development time, performance or scope. Enough with the double talk.
  - jeff18 17y ago
    jQuery and PNGs are actually not HTML5. I'd recommend checking out the CSS animation / transitions modules at the W3C to get familiarized. Safari's implementation is actually hardware accelerated. Also, check out the SVG animation module. See the ADC for a pretty nice selection of examples which do actually rival Flash websites, often without even using JavaScript.
    - tomlin 17y ago
      jQuery and PNGs are actually not HTML5. I understand they aren't the same. jQuery is often cited as a "Flash killer" of sorts, just covering the bases. See the ADC for a pretty nice selection of examples which do actually rival Flash websites, often without even using JavaScript. Right. Except that they don't always. I'm not saying that Flash should be what we use for creating innovative content. Standards are slow. Video tag? We're just starting to see this implemented? After how many years has video been a demand on the web? Flash will always do what the browser can't handle native. New demands for VOIP, Web Conferencing, h/w accelerated 3D will keep Flash alive as well an IDE (with mind crushing bugs, mind you) that brings everything together. And if it doesn't live as a file format, that would be alright, too. There is a different experience with creating content within the Flash IDE. If Flash eventually outputted in native standards, that would be a great thing.
      - deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
      - jeff18 17y ago
        If that was your point, you could have just said "Microsoft doesn't support HTML5, end of story." I wasn't trying to argue that HTML5 has the same adoption as Flash, simply that HTML5 is technically capable of creating those "state-of-the-art" websites cited in the first post. FYI, HTML5 also addresses hardware accelerated 3D in the WebGL module. ;)
        tomlin 17y ago
        How I love the "The Flash-hater side-step". If you read, I wasn't talking about adoption rates (although that is also an issue worth noting). You might have noticed that I mentioned that Flash brought about new innovations to the web. Most notably, how video is handled. Try to look forward and see beyond HTML5, just as you seem to have no problem doing with HTML5 adoption rates.
        jeff18 17y ago