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So few implementations of Agile have the slightest connection to the quality-focused spirit of the Agile principles that there is no such thing to talk about "A

by p4wnc6 11y ago

So few implementations of Agile have the slightest connection to the quality-focused spirit of the Agile principles that there is no such thing to talk about "Agile" apart from the ubiquitous failure mode. You say, >the kind of "Agile" that people are railing against is so far removed that it doesn't deserve any association whatsoever with the expression "agile" but I say that the idealized notion of "agile" you're talking about simply does not exist in reality, and no company using Agile even comes remotely close to it. The fact that Agile is so easily subverted is an indication of how poor a tool it is, and in the end when everyone is misusing a certain tool (the way that everyone misuses Agile) you have to stop doing mental gymnastics to defend the tool and acknowledge the widespread failure is the tool's fault.

mindcrime 11y ago
but I say that the idealized notion of "agile" you're talking about simply does not exist in reality, and no company using Agile even comes remotely close to it. My experience suggests otherwise. (the way that everyone misuses Agile) But that's not the case.
- p4wnc6 11y ago
  Based on how ubiquitous it is to hear about agile failure modes, this suggests to me your experience isn't widely applicable. I'm glad you found some of those one-in-a-million workplaces that "do agile right" -- but they are so rare that we can't go around basing our overall opinion about agile, or our expectations about the next marginal adoption of agile, upon these kinds of freak occurrences.
  - mindcrime 11y ago
    Based on how ubiquitous it is to hear about agile failure modes, this suggests to me your experience isn't widely applicable. Counterpoint: Maybe you're just hearing from a "Vocal Minority". And maybe the people quietly doing agile and enjoying it, don't feel the need to go around trumpeting it to the world?
    - p4wnc6 11y ago
      No, the grievances against Agile are just too voluminous and wide-spread, consider even Dave Thomas's presentation about how Agile is dead due to the ease with which it is subverted for political manipulation [0]. If someone as key to software productivity as Dave Thomas is saying this, it's clearly not just because of a vocal minority. Your suggestion that we should check whether it's just a vocal minority is a good one. We should check that. Unfortunately, it's extremely obvious that it's not the case, and the dysfunction / failure mode of Agile is extremely common, by far the majority of Agile implementations. [0] < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M >

by p4wnc6 11y ago

mindcrime 11y ago

but I say that the idealized notion of "agile" you're talking about simply does not exist in reality, and no company using Agile even comes remotely close to it. My experience suggests otherwise. (the way that everyone misuses Agile) But that's not the case.

p4wnc6 11y ago
Based on how ubiquitous it is to hear about agile failure modes, this suggests to me your experience isn't widely applicable. I'm glad you found some of those one-in-a-million workplaces that "do agile right" -- but they are so rare that we can't go around basing our overall opinion about agile, or our expectations about the next marginal adoption of agile, upon these kinds of freak occurrences.
- mindcrime 11y ago
  Based on how ubiquitous it is to hear about agile failure modes, this suggests to me your experience isn't widely applicable. Counterpoint: Maybe you're just hearing from a "Vocal Minority". And maybe the people quietly doing agile and enjoying it, don't feel the need to go around trumpeting it to the world?
  - p4wnc6 11y ago
    No, the grievances against Agile are just too voluminous and wide-spread, consider even Dave Thomas's presentation about how Agile is dead due to the ease with which it is subverted for political manipulation [0]. If someone as key to software productivity as Dave Thomas is saying this, it's clearly not just because of a vocal minority. Your suggestion that we should check whether it's just a vocal minority is a good one. We should check that. Unfortunately, it's extremely obvious that it's not the case, and the dysfunction / failure mode of Agile is extremely common, by far the majority of Agile implementations. [0] < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M >