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Precisely. This is the point I try to make. Flash gives life to the experimental web. Anyone care to tell me why web devs should want Flash dead? No, not a dum

by tomlin 17y ago

Precisely. This is the point I try to make. Flash gives life to the experimental web. Anyone care to tell me why web devs should want Flash dead? No, not a dumb blanket statement regarding open source. Think. Flash sets the stage (no pun intended) for innovation on the web. What if a developer wanted to introduced a new approach to video conferencing / VOIP and allowed developers to play with the experience among multiple audiences? Why is Flash the spooky village witch, to which we must burn at the stake? We'll wait on the W3C to "standardize" innovative processes into browsers. Good luck with that.

jrockway 17y ago
Anyone care to tell me why web devs should want Flash dead? Because it's broken and therefore a pain for users. Should something like Flash exist? Yes. But Flash itself is a bad implementation of a good idea.
- tomlin 17y ago
  Flash has issues and anything the W3S and WHATWG do is without fault. Down with plugin architecture! All ideas and possible innovations that live outside of our dying, simple-minded, slow-moving, "One or None" religion should be killed! chant Kill Flash! chant Kill Flash! chant Kill Flash! chant /sarcasm
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Give us Flash's source code. That's the problem. Nobody cares about specs, they care that they can't use their computer when a website using Flash is open. If you were a programmer, you'd know that bugs can be fixed. But not by sitting around and complaining, but by writing code. Since Adobe won't let anyone fix their code, so the only solution left is to stop using Flash (and start using something else). The "something else" is improving browser support for fast Javascript, Canvas, video, 3d acceleration, etc.
    - tomlin 17y ago
      Give us Flash's source code. That's the problem. It is a problem, but I am having a hard time believing that perspective. The OOS community can create a player. Since the SWF format is inherently open there is nothing really stopping anyone from making an awesome Flash plugin, yet no one has. Must me a reason for that. Oh wait, there is a reason. Money. Time. Adobe invests millions into R&D every year. Money that is used to do test cases and audience dynamics. OSS community does not. The problem is software patents. Not Adobe. Not OOS. And of course, not Flash. A root problem exists and Flash, like much software, is the result.
Groxx 17y ago
Flash can hang around, there isn't anything better yet to do some of those things. Except desktop applications. They'll typically be faster-running too, though granted they'll work on a smaller set of platforms. I think the "death to Flash" cry is primarily a "death to ubiquitous Flash" cry. It's useful in a couple niche areas, but it's used everywhere instead of just those niches, and 99% of the time it's used so much / so poorly, it'd be better if it didn't exist.
flogic 17y ago
Flash is ok so long as it's on a leash. Most of us are ok with video games and a few cute things here and there. What we're not ok with replacing the entire browsing experience with flash or flash ads, or anything that just chews the cpu or makes sound without being explicitly requested.

by tomlin 17y ago

jrockway 17y ago

Anyone care to tell me why web devs should want Flash dead? Because it's broken and therefore a pain for users. Should something like Flash exist? Yes. But Flash itself is a bad implementation of a good idea.

tomlin 17y ago
Flash has issues and anything the W3S and WHATWG do is without fault. Down with plugin architecture! All ideas and possible innovations that live outside of our dying, simple-minded, slow-moving, "One or None" religion should be killed! chant Kill Flash! chant Kill Flash! chant Kill Flash! chant /sarcasm
- jrockway 17y ago
  Give us Flash's source code. That's the problem. Nobody cares about specs, they care that they can't use their computer when a website using Flash is open. If you were a programmer, you'd know that bugs can be fixed. But not by sitting around and complaining, but by writing code. Since Adobe won't let anyone fix their code, so the only solution left is to stop using Flash (and start using something else). The "something else" is improving browser support for fast Javascript, Canvas, video, 3d acceleration, etc.
  - tomlin 17y ago
    Give us Flash's source code. That's the problem. It is a problem, but I am having a hard time believing that perspective. The OOS community can create a player. Since the SWF format is inherently open there is nothing really stopping anyone from making an awesome Flash plugin, yet no one has. Must me a reason for that. Oh wait, there is a reason. Money. Time. Adobe invests millions into R&D every year. Money that is used to do test cases and audience dynamics. OSS community does not. The problem is software patents. Not Adobe. Not OOS. And of course, not Flash. A root problem exists and Flash, like much software, is the result.

Groxx 17y ago

Flash can hang around, there isn't anything better yet to do some of those things. Except desktop applications. They'll typically be faster-running too, though granted they'll work on a smaller set of platforms. I think the "death to Flash" cry is primarily a "death to ubiquitous Flash" cry. It's useful in a couple niche areas, but it's used everywhere instead of just those niches, and 99% of the time it's used so much / so poorly, it'd be better if it didn't exist.

flogic 17y ago

Flash is ok so long as it's on a leash. Most of us are ok with video games and a few cute things here and there. What we're not ok with replacing the entire browsing experience with flash or flash ads, or anything that just chews the cpu or makes sound without being explicitly requested.