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"Deputy Mayor and Moderate party spokesperson Maria Ryden, who is one of the politicians behind the motion told The Local she felt it was "unfair" to continue t

"Deputy Mayor and Moderate party spokesperson Maria Ryden, who is one of the politicians behind the motion told The Local she felt it was "unfair" to continue the project, because it was not sustainable in the long term. "We might as well stop now," she argued." This is nuts, don't they understand the point of a test?

ptaipale 11y ago
I read it: outcome of the test has been seen already, and continuing it is just unfair to others. (The outcome being that yes, people who can work shorter hours for same salary are of course happier, but the benefits do not outweigh the higher employment costs.)
- Retric 11y ago
  It's not just about cost vs. happiness. Shorter workdays reduce mistakes and having more data is going to help show long term trends that are not necessarily obvious. I suspect work type is going to play a huge role in optimum work day length with 8 really being more about factory's for high value items vs. office work vs. Surgeons.
- bobwaycott 11y ago
  Well, to be clear, there is disagreement on whether the benefits outweigh the higher employment costs. Seems this is really an attempt to avoid having to deal with a broader discussion about how to make these benefits available to everyone. I read it: handwringing over it being "unfair" that some people in a test group are happier than their peers, and an ideological opposition to entertaining the thought of extending this happiness any further.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    Since there is a very real cost increase in arranging care with six hour workday instead of ~8 hours -- you need to hire more people to do the work -- this is not just about ideological opposition; it's about economics, its about efficiency of the public sector.
dogma1138 11y ago
It can also be interpreted as we've tried, the data we collected shows us that its unsustainable and did not provide sufficient improvements to counter the downsides and we see no point of continuing. Not every trial has to run it's full course some times you can have enough information before that.
- mtberatwork 11y ago
  That's not really what the article says though. It's being wrapped up because: "A motion from the opposition centre-right Moderate party is calling for the pilot project to be wrapped up prematurely."
  - jerf 11y ago
    The feeling I'm getting from this article is that the positions of both sides are being smudged out of recognizability. There's a trace of a sensible argument being made on both side, but they're both completely unsupported in that article. Pending further sources, the only conclusion I can come to from this article is "completely insufficient information".
touzen 11y ago
The idea of a six hour workday is an extremely politically divisive issue in Sweden. It's even controversial _within_ the Swedish left. The Moderate party in Gothenburg isn't being driven by a lack of understanding but by ideology (the Moderate party being the largest conservative party in Sweden).
- rconti 11y ago
  Can you help us understand more about the test? The benefits seemed great, but obviously the cost was subsidized by the government. Did they feel that a shift to 6-hour workdays would be fully subsidized by the government, and hence the test shows it's unworkable? Or did they think it would be funded by employers, and were willing to saddle them with the costs? I'd be interested in more background.
  - jib 11y ago
    There is no general test. A home for the elderly in Gothenburg with about 70 employees is trailing shortening working hours. It's done as a test to see how it affects productivity, working environment etc, and meant to serve as basis for future political decisions. In Swedish: http://arbetet.se/2015/08/03/112559/ http://arbetet.se/2015/08/03/112559/ There's also a few other tests around Swedn but overall I guess way less than 1k people.
jib 11y ago
The moderate party is the most Conservative party in Sweden. Think privatisation, reducing employee rights, lower taxes. It isn't exactly surprising they are opposed to this. Gothenburg is traditionally a social democrat city (the biggest left wing party).
- jxdjsks 11y ago
  Can anyone fill me in on how reducing employee rights can be morally defended? I just don't see how people with this opinion can look people in the eye and not feel ashamed.

ptaipale 11y ago

I read it: outcome of the test has been seen already, and continuing it is just unfair to others. (The outcome being that yes, people who can work shorter hours for same salary are of course happier, but the benefits do not outweigh the higher employment costs.)

Retric 11y ago
It's not just about cost vs. happiness. Shorter workdays reduce mistakes and having more data is going to help show long term trends that are not necessarily obvious. I suspect work type is going to play a huge role in optimum work day length with 8 really being more about factory's for high value items vs. office work vs. Surgeons.
bobwaycott 11y ago
Well, to be clear, there is disagreement on whether the benefits outweigh the higher employment costs. Seems this is really an attempt to avoid having to deal with a broader discussion about how to make these benefits available to everyone. I read it: handwringing over it being "unfair" that some people in a test group are happier than their peers, and an ideological opposition to entertaining the thought of extending this happiness any further.
- ptaipale 11y ago
  Since there is a very real cost increase in arranging care with six hour workday instead of ~8 hours -- you need to hire more people to do the work -- this is not just about ideological opposition; it's about economics, its about efficiency of the public sector.

dogma1138 11y ago

It can also be interpreted as we've tried, the data we collected shows us that its unsustainable and did not provide sufficient improvements to counter the downsides and we see no point of continuing. Not every trial has to run it's full course some times you can have enough information before that.

mtberatwork 11y ago
That's not really what the article says though. It's being wrapped up because: "A motion from the opposition centre-right Moderate party is calling for the pilot project to be wrapped up prematurely."
- jerf 11y ago
  The feeling I'm getting from this article is that the positions of both sides are being smudged out of recognizability. There's a trace of a sensible argument being made on both side, but they're both completely unsupported in that article. Pending further sources, the only conclusion I can come to from this article is "completely insufficient information".

touzen 11y ago

The idea of a six hour workday is an extremely politically divisive issue in Sweden. It's even controversial _within_ the Swedish left. The Moderate party in Gothenburg isn't being driven by a lack of understanding but by ideology (the Moderate party being the largest conservative party in Sweden).

rconti 11y ago
Can you help us understand more about the test? The benefits seemed great, but obviously the cost was subsidized by the government. Did they feel that a shift to 6-hour workdays would be fully subsidized by the government, and hence the test shows it's unworkable? Or did they think it would be funded by employers, and were willing to saddle them with the costs? I'd be interested in more background.
- jib 11y ago
  There is no general test. A home for the elderly in Gothenburg with about 70 employees is trailing shortening working hours. It's done as a test to see how it affects productivity, working environment etc, and meant to serve as basis for future political decisions. In Swedish: http://arbetet.se/2015/08/03/112559/ http://arbetet.se/2015/08/03/112559/ There's also a few other tests around Swedn but overall I guess way less than 1k people.

jib 11y ago

The moderate party is the most Conservative party in Sweden. Think privatisation, reducing employee rights, lower taxes. It isn't exactly surprising they are opposed to this. Gothenburg is traditionally a social democrat city (the biggest left wing party).

jxdjsks 11y ago
Can anyone fill me in on how reducing employee rights can be morally defended? I just don't see how people with this opinion can look people in the eye and not feel ashamed.