4 ms·

> Worst of all, many women enter into CS majors only to find that they are already hopelessly behind as they discover that their male counterparts already know

> Worst of all, many women enter into CS majors only to find that they are already hopelessly behind as they discover that their male counterparts already know the material from tinkering in their childhoods. My college experience was quite different. I never tinkered with computers or electronics during my childhood, and I had no problems getting up to speed. In fact, I'd say most of my peers at the community college I went to had zero programming experience. The instructors didn't assume any prior knowledge, either.

tetrep 11y ago
Indeed. The extent of my programming knowledge entering collage was basic HTML/CSS and making and making a form in Visual Basic that swapped the positions of the "Okay" and "Cancel" buttons whenever you moused over one of them. I knew much less than many of my peers and our school specifically had an introduction to CS class that was geared towards 0 knowledge students. A lot of the CS majors skipped it and went straight to the 2nd class, which I took the following semester.
eberfreitas 11y ago
I guess the idea is to say that, generally speaking, boys will be encourage to tinker with electronics and computers even from an early age without any recrimination. On the other side, girls won't have the same "luxury". Even their toys reflect the kind of life society chooses for them: taking care of babies and taking care of the house. This isn't to say that your statement isn't true, but I would bet it is just an anecdote. [edit]grammar and more ideas[/edit]
drumdance 11y ago
Same here. I didn't even study CS, nor did I own a computer until I was 23. And this was back before the internet was ubiquitous so if you wanted to program you had to spend real money on books and developer tools. No free/open source resources at your fingertips. My first real exposure to programming came after I bluffed my way into a temp gig building spreadsheets in Quattro Pro.
whateveridunno 11y ago
She didn't say "all women", she said "many women." I attend the University of Texas at Austin. I started out as a CS major, still am, but no longer want to work in the field. One of the reasons was the fact that although I'd taken AP CS courses in high school, I still felt looked down upon because I'd first been exposed to and developed an interest in CS "late". This attitude came from my peers, the companies that attended our career fairs, and even from my first exposure to the online tech press/blogosphere- I remember reading an essay by Paul Graham wherein he essentially implied that if a woman hasn't started coding by 13 all hope is lost for her. The only people I didn't get that impression from were (most of) my instructors, but that wasn't really enough, especially in the 500+ person intro classes I was in at the time. Incidentally, like many women in CS, I was encouraged to look for role models among other women in my department and in the broader tech world. Dear other technical college women, if you're reading this: Don't. In my personal experience, successful women in the field are much, much more likely to have had parents who were programmers and to have started earlier. All the women who were pointed out to me as role models had this background. It was only when I started looking to the successful men in my program that I started to find people who had first learned to code in their sophomore years and decided to stay. I have my own theories as to why that imbalance exists, but the simple truth is, I could have learned a lot more about how to "catch up" from those men than the women I was pushed towards.
- Alex3917 11y ago
  > I started out as a CS major, still am, but no longer want to work in the field. Working in the tech field has almost nothing to do with CS. Many/most developers don't study CS in college, and technical ability is only a very small part of what makes a good developer.
- ahallock 11y ago
  > I still felt looked down upon because I'd first been exposed to and developed an interest in CS "late". Come on, there are assholes everywhere who use this tactic to make themselves feel superior or to get rid of potential competition, men and women alike. This is not exclusive to CS. A lot of people are worried that they put so much time into something and that someone 'fresh' could make them look bad by picking it up quicker. It makes it that much more satisfying when you beat them.
SudoNhim 11y ago
It irks me when I hear that argument too. People get offended by the idea that "if you find first year COSC courses difficult, then programming is probably not for you" - but in my experience that's completely how it turns out. All the programmers I know who started at university with no prior experience and went on to happy and successful* have this in common - they found first year COSC courses an absolute breeze, and went way ahead of the coursework in their own time just for the fun of it. (*includes myself and my sister)
lliamander 11y ago
Indeed, not all male computer science students have prior exposure to programming[0]. I didn't when I entered college, and I had several male peers who did. That they had that advantage was definitely intimidating. Yet, at the same time they were clearly participants in a hobby and community that I wanted to be a part of, and when I expressed interest they were quite welcoming. I think in large part they were just glad to find other people with whom they could share their passion. Now, I'm doing quite well as an engineer and I thoroughly enjoy programming. I have no prescriptions for women; all I'm suggesting is that we do not over-generalize about the experiences that men have in CS. [0]Well, I did try to teach myself programming a couple different times, but I failed utterly and concluded that I wasn't cut-out for it. If anything that experience put me in a worse starting position. I started out college studying philosophy and literature. edit: removed formatting issue.
gshulegaard 11y ago
I think this is the crux of where I started to disagree with her: > In fact, only 5% of U.S. High schools even offer the Computer Science AP exam in the first place. As a result, many women... I don't understand why this affects only women. Or more importantly, affects women (and minorities) more than other groups. There are social stigmas and the like we could examine, but this particular quote as written reads as a non-sequitur to me. Edit: Just to clarify, I don't want to belittle the very real disparities we are facing in the tech industry. Also worth noting, I thought she was articulate and I appreciated her sources and statistics.

tetrep 11y ago

Indeed. The extent of my programming knowledge entering collage was basic HTML/CSS and making and making a form in Visual Basic that swapped the positions of the "Okay" and "Cancel" buttons whenever you moused over one of them. I knew much less than many of my peers and our school specifically had an introduction to CS class that was geared towards 0 knowledge students. A lot of the CS majors skipped it and went straight to the 2nd class, which I took the following semester.

eberfreitas 11y ago

I guess the idea is to say that, generally speaking, boys will be encourage to tinker with electronics and computers even from an early age without any recrimination. On the other side, girls won't have the same "luxury". Even their toys reflect the kind of life society chooses for them: taking care of babies and taking care of the house. This isn't to say that your statement isn't true, but I would bet it is just an anecdote. [edit]grammar and more ideas[/edit]

drumdance 11y ago

Same here. I didn't even study CS, nor did I own a computer until I was 23. And this was back before the internet was ubiquitous so if you wanted to program you had to spend real money on books and developer tools. No free/open source resources at your fingertips. My first real exposure to programming came after I bluffed my way into a temp gig building spreadsheets in Quattro Pro.

whateveridunno 11y ago

She didn't say "all women", she said "many women." I attend the University of Texas at Austin. I started out as a CS major, still am, but no longer want to work in the field. One of the reasons was the fact that although I'd taken AP CS courses in high school, I still felt looked down upon because I'd first been exposed to and developed an interest in CS "late". This attitude came from my peers, the companies that attended our career fairs, and even from my first exposure to the online tech press/blogosphere- I remember reading an essay by Paul Graham wherein he essentially implied that if a woman hasn't started coding by 13 all hope is lost for her. The only people I didn't get that impression from were (most of) my instructors, but that wasn't really enough, especially in the 500+ person intro classes I was in at the time. Incidentally, like many women in CS, I was encouraged to look for role models among other women in my department and in the broader tech world. Dear other technical college women, if you're reading this: Don't. In my personal experience, successful women in the field are much, much more likely to have had parents who were programmers and to have started earlier. All the women who were pointed out to me as role models had this background. It was only when I started looking to the successful men in my program that I started to find people who had first learned to code in their sophomore years and decided to stay. I have my own theories as to why that imbalance exists, but the simple truth is, I could have learned a lot more about how to "catch up" from those men than the women I was pushed towards.

Alex3917 11y ago
> I started out as a CS major, still am, but no longer want to work in the field. Working in the tech field has almost nothing to do with CS. Many/most developers don't study CS in college, and technical ability is only a very small part of what makes a good developer.
ahallock 11y ago
> I still felt looked down upon because I'd first been exposed to and developed an interest in CS "late". Come on, there are assholes everywhere who use this tactic to make themselves feel superior or to get rid of potential competition, men and women alike. This is not exclusive to CS. A lot of people are worried that they put so much time into something and that someone 'fresh' could make them look bad by picking it up quicker. It makes it that much more satisfying when you beat them.

SudoNhim 11y ago

It irks me when I hear that argument too. People get offended by the idea that "if you find first year COSC courses difficult, then programming is probably not for you" - but in my experience that's completely how it turns out. All the programmers I know who started at university with no prior experience and went on to happy and successful* have this in common - they found first year COSC courses an absolute breeze, and went way ahead of the coursework in their own time just for the fun of it. (*includes myself and my sister)

lliamander 11y ago

Indeed, not all male computer science students have prior exposure to programming[0]. I didn't when I entered college, and I had several male peers who did. That they had that advantage was definitely intimidating. Yet, at the same time they were clearly participants in a hobby and community that I wanted to be a part of, and when I expressed interest they were quite welcoming. I think in large part they were just glad to find other people with whom they could share their passion. Now, I'm doing quite well as an engineer and I thoroughly enjoy programming. I have no prescriptions for women; all I'm suggesting is that we do not over-generalize about the experiences that men have in CS. [0]Well, I did try to teach myself programming a couple different times, but I failed utterly and concluded that I wasn't cut-out for it. If anything that experience put me in a worse starting position. I started out college studying philosophy and literature. edit: removed formatting issue.

gshulegaard 11y ago

I think this is the crux of where I started to disagree with her: > In fact, only 5% of U.S. High schools even offer the Computer Science AP exam in the first place. As a result, many women... I don't understand why this affects only women. Or more importantly, affects women (and minorities) more than other groups. There are social stigmas and the like we could examine, but this particular quote as written reads as a non-sequitur to me. Edit: Just to clarify, I don't want to belittle the very real disparities we are facing in the tech industry. Also worth noting, I thought she was articulate and I appreciated her sources and statistics.