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I agree, completely. What I'd say to the US government: take in talented people (without worrying too much about exactly how they are talented, such as preferr

by geebee 17y ago

I agree, completely. What I'd say to the US government: take in talented people (without worrying too much about exactly how they are talented, such as preferring engineers or scientists), give them the same autonomy and freedom you'd give a US citizen, and let them choose their own path in life. Quit thinking you know what they should do, they know better than you do. They'll impress you in ways you didn't expect, and it'll be better than you expected. Get rid of this H1B, startup visa crap. I've had huge disagreements with other people on HN about immigration, mainly because I do believe in limits (I oppose unlimited immigration), and I think that emphasizing engineering instead of general diversity of talent is harmful. But almost everyone seems to agree that freedom and autonomy are preferable to a government mandated purpose and skill set.

blizkreeg 17y ago
Precisely. That's my entire argument. You summed it up well. Agree on the _not unlimited immigration_ part, but when you let someone in by qualifying them, give them the freedom to pursue what they choose to, how they choose to.
SilianRail 17y ago
I've had this discussion hundreds of times with talented foreigners (India, German, Polish, and Chinese just to name a few). They all have had the same generic complain "why can't I just live in this country... I'm talented enough". I fully agree...but unfortunately for these people they are tied to larg-corp H1B visas which restrict their freedom to leave the company and create jobs elsewhere. Here is the key issue...how do you decided who is talented and who is not? This would become a highly bureaucratic issue.
- geebee 17y ago
  "Here is the key issue...how do you decided who is talented and who is not? This would become a highly bureaucratic issue." I agree, and it makes me slightly uneasy when I say it. It does require what will ultimately be a bureaucratic judgement. I'm not sure there's a good alternative. While I don't relish the idea of the government assuming this role, I'd still prefer it to Oracle's HR department, which is not (and probably should not be) accountable to me or any other member of the voting public. Guess it comes down to Churchill's statement "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
tomjen2 17y ago
So if you are going to limit the number of people who gets to enter the US, how will you rank them?

by geebee 17y ago

blizkreeg 17y ago

Precisely. That's my entire argument. You summed it up well. Agree on the _not unlimited immigration_ part, but when you let someone in by qualifying them, give them the freedom to pursue what they choose to, how they choose to.

SilianRail 17y ago

I've had this discussion hundreds of times with talented foreigners (India, German, Polish, and Chinese just to name a few). They all have had the same generic complain "why can't I just live in this country... I'm talented enough". I fully agree...but unfortunately for these people they are tied to larg-corp H1B visas which restrict their freedom to leave the company and create jobs elsewhere. Here is the key issue...how do you decided who is talented and who is not? This would become a highly bureaucratic issue.

geebee 17y ago
"Here is the key issue...how do you decided who is talented and who is not? This would become a highly bureaucratic issue." I agree, and it makes me slightly uneasy when I say it. It does require what will ultimately be a bureaucratic judgement. I'm not sure there's a good alternative. While I don't relish the idea of the government assuming this role, I'd still prefer it to Oracle's HR department, which is not (and probably should not be) accountable to me or any other member of the voting public. Guess it comes down to Churchill's statement "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

tomjen2 17y ago

So if you are going to limit the number of people who gets to enter the US, how will you rank them?