5 ms·

Dupe; discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542664

by JamilD 10y ago

sridca 10y ago
Why is this post hidden from the front page? It was there moments ago.
- untothebreach 10y ago
  maybe it hit the flamewar detector? maybe people were flagging it?
- sridca 10y ago
  I came across this: > (2015-10-16) The people behind the scenes at Hacker News now hand pick stories they want on the front page. It's not a user-generated voting-controlled news site. But it pretends to be one and tries to look like one. It's deeply dishonest. http://www.curi.us/1612-anti-israel-bias-at-hacker-news http://www.curi.us/1612-anti-israel-bias-at-hacker-news / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10402465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10402465 This is outrageous, and I will find a way to create a front-page list that is "unadulterated".
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    There's really no pretense that votes are the only factor in ranking stories. Here's the moderator commenting about the many factors: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20rank&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20rank&sort=byPopulari... (not all the results are applicable, enough are)
    - sridca 10y ago
      > There's really no pretense that votes are the only factor in ranking stories. True, however the HN front page has always given me the impression that votes matter the most, and that the front-page is largely reflective of the interests of the HN demographics. The question I'd ask is: why is there no explicit indication (written in the footer, perhaps) of the front-page being vetted by a handful of moderators? A subtle form of pretense is not speaking of the truth.
      - Tiksi 10y ago
        http://news.ycombinator.com/active http://news.ycombinator.com/active seems to be pretty unadulterated, although it goes by comments not votes. Controversial topics that get flagged as flamewars and drop off the front page (they hit 40 comments before 40 votes iirc) stay on the first page of /active as long as they're still... active. Also, HN is pretty open about being more heavily moderated than other parts of the net, it's far from secret. And while I don't necessarily share the view that moderation of discussion is a GoodThing™, I find it acceptable since no one is trying to pretend that it's not happening.
        sridca 10y ago
        http://news.ycombinator.com/active http://news.ycombinator.com/active is quite interesting and this particular thread is standing at position #6 over there! > HN is pretty open about being more heavily moderated than other parts of the net [...] I find it acceptable since no one is trying to pretend that it's not happening. A subtle form of pretence is to not explicitly state the fact. Why is there no explicit indication (written in the footer, perhaps) of the front-page being vetted by a handful of moderators? Why is the 'active' page kept hidden (it is not in the navbar)? Why all this secrecy?
        Tiksi 10y ago
        The active page (along with a couple others) are shown on https://news.ycombinator.com/lists https://news.ycombinator.com/lists (the 'Lists' link in the footer). There's a few more odd pages like newpoll that aren't linked to in any obvious place. I don't really see any of it as secrecy, as that implies actively and intentionally hiding, to me it seems more like not going out of the way to show/tell people. The Guidelines and FAQs go into it a bit IIRC, and dang has written comments on it as well. I'd describe it more as unintuitive than secretive. It seems like the same reasoning behind keeping HN minimalistic and not webapp 2.0 bloatware. It might chase some people away but it also keeps an eternal september at bay. Also the front page is not vetted by moderators (if it was they'd be doing a terrible job as dupes and blatant linkbait are common), but there's code in place to mitigate flamewars and such. If you want to see what stories and comments are actually getting killed (by users, not the mods) you can enable showdead in your profile, which imo should be enabled by default but I can understand why it's not. Generally if you see a story drop off the front page quickly, it's getting comments a lot quicker than it's getting votes. I do think mods will occasionally remove the penalty for this on stories that triggered the flamewar protection without there being a flamewar. Additionally some domains and topics are penalized, and there seem to be filtered words that will auto kill your comment. Try leaving a comment with (Im sorry, gotta avoid it somehow) m@$tur b@t3 in it. But again that's all automated, just unintuitive.
- kelukelugames 10y ago
  I have mentioned this before. A large enough group of people on HN will flag anything that mentions gender or race. Posts on social issues, unless it's about class, never stay on the frontpage. Probably also why people assume HN is an echo chamber of sexist and racist attitudes. Maybe that's too harsh.

Dupe; discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542664

by JamilD 10y ago

Dupe; discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542664

sridca 10y ago

Why is this post hidden from the front page? It was there moments ago.

untothebreach 10y ago
maybe it hit the flamewar detector? maybe people were flagging it?
sridca 10y ago
I came across this: > (2015-10-16) The people behind the scenes at Hacker News now hand pick stories they want on the front page. It's not a user-generated voting-controlled news site. But it pretends to be one and tries to look like one. It's deeply dishonest. http://www.curi.us/1612-anti-israel-bias-at-hacker-news http://www.curi.us/1612-anti-israel-bias-at-hacker-news / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10402465 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10402465 This is outrageous, and I will find a way to create a front-page list that is "unadulterated".
- maxerickson 10y ago
  There's really no pretense that votes are the only factor in ranking stories. Here's the moderator commenting about the many factors: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20rank&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20rank&sort=byPopulari... (not all the results are applicable, enough are)
  - sridca 10y ago
    > There's really no pretense that votes are the only factor in ranking stories. True, however the HN front page has always given me the impression that votes matter the most, and that the front-page is largely reflective of the interests of the HN demographics. The question I'd ask is: why is there no explicit indication (written in the footer, perhaps) of the front-page being vetted by a handful of moderators? A subtle form of pretense is not speaking of the truth.
    - Tiksi 10y ago
      http://news.ycombinator.com/active http://news.ycombinator.com/active seems to be pretty unadulterated, although it goes by comments not votes. Controversial topics that get flagged as flamewars and drop off the front page (they hit 40 comments before 40 votes iirc) stay on the first page of /active as long as they're still... active. Also, HN is pretty open about being more heavily moderated than other parts of the net, it's far from secret. And while I don't necessarily share the view that moderation of discussion is a GoodThing™, I find it acceptable since no one is trying to pretend that it's not happening.
      - sridca 10y ago
        http://news.ycombinator.com/active http://news.ycombinator.com/active is quite interesting and this particular thread is standing at position #6 over there! > HN is pretty open about being more heavily moderated than other parts of the net [...] I find it acceptable since no one is trying to pretend that it's not happening. A subtle form of pretence is to not explicitly state the fact. Why is there no explicit indication (written in the footer, perhaps) of the front-page being vetted by a handful of moderators? Why is the 'active' page kept hidden (it is not in the navbar)? Why all this secrecy?
        Tiksi 10y ago
        The active page (along with a couple others) are shown on https://news.ycombinator.com/lists https://news.ycombinator.com/lists (the 'Lists' link in the footer). There's a few more odd pages like newpoll that aren't linked to in any obvious place. I don't really see any of it as secrecy, as that implies actively and intentionally hiding, to me it seems more like not going out of the way to show/tell people. The Guidelines and FAQs go into it a bit IIRC, and dang has written comments on it as well. I'd describe it more as unintuitive than secretive. It seems like the same reasoning behind keeping HN minimalistic and not webapp 2.0 bloatware. It might chase some people away but it also keeps an eternal september at bay. Also the front page is not vetted by moderators (if it was they'd be doing a terrible job as dupes and blatant linkbait are common), but there's code in place to mitigate flamewars and such. If you want to see what stories and comments are actually getting killed (by users, not the mods) you can enable showdead in your profile, which imo should be enabled by default but I can understand why it's not. Generally if you see a story drop off the front page quickly, it's getting comments a lot quicker than it's getting votes. I do think mods will occasionally remove the penalty for this on stories that triggered the flamewar protection without there being a flamewar. Additionally some domains and topics are penalized, and there seem to be filtered words that will auto kill your comment. Try leaving a comment with (Im sorry, gotta avoid it somehow) m@$tur b@t3 in it. But again that's all automated, just unintuitive.
kelukelugames 10y ago
I have mentioned this before. A large enough group of people on HN will flag anything that mentions gender or race. Posts on social issues, unless it's about class, never stay on the frontpage. Probably also why people assume HN is an echo chamber of sexist and racist attitudes. Maybe that's too harsh.