4 ms·

Is this one of those true things we all agree not to talk about? Because I sure don't see anything wrong with it: if a guy's wife is unhappy with his job, then

by wtbob 11y ago

Is this one of those true things we all agree not to talk about? Because I sure don't see anything wrong with it: if a guy's wife is unhappy with his job, then he'll get a new one.

douche 11y ago
Wife, or job?
- RyanZAG 11y ago
  Difficult to say, I've seen it go both ways. Depends on how much he likes the wife.
  - DonHopkins 11y ago
    Well in Alex St. John's case, his messy divorce led to him getting fired from Microsoft by performing a George Costanza [1]: >But perhaps the most telling element of all of this is St. John’s own experience. In an interview by Christopher Redner [2], St. John himself suffered burn out at Microsoft to the point where he “got himself fired”. “He would pass out at his keyboard and straggle into morning meetings with key marks on his face. Worked sucked everything out of him; his marriage disintegrated.” >According to a Shacknews interview from 2007 [3], St. John was going through a “messy divorce” at the time. He wanted to get fired rather than quit, because that ensured he’d retain his stock options for Microsoft. [1] http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/alex-st-johns-ideas-about-game-development-are-terrifying/ http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/alex-st-johns-ideas-about-g... [2] http://www.informationtechnologyleaders.com/stvid.html http://www.informationtechnologyleaders.com/stvid.html [3] http://www.shacknews.com/article/46338/alex-st-john-interview http://www.shacknews.com/article/46338/alex-st-john-intervie...
untothebreach 11y ago
The problem here is not that an unhappy spouse will cause the employee to leave, but rather that the author makes the assumption that the employee will be male, and that the male will have a female SO.
- rectang 11y ago
  EXACTLY. So many people on this thread have not even noticed that women are not considered as candidates!
  - douche 11y ago
    Because it says explicitly: > RULE 1: You don’t recruit and retain male engineers you recruit and retain Wives and Girlfriends" Reading is fundamental
    - st3v3r 11y ago
      The implication being that you don't recruit or retain female engineers at all.
      - douche 11y ago
        One could imply that if one were searching out reasons to get offended over a tongue-in-cheek powerpoint, which in fact features another slide specifically about female engineers.
      - lucozade 11y ago
        No the implication is that that's not how you manage female engineers, it's just how you manage male engineers. He says later that female engineers will go get promoted into non-engineering roles soon enough anyway. The implication there is you don't need to worry about retaining them as engineers as they won't stay that way. BTW this isn't an endorsement of either his views or his approach. I mean the general thrust of the presentation could be renamed "ways to stiff your staff". There are bits of it that ring true e.g. the different motivations between newbies, lifers and the rest. The majority though is clearly intended to be provocative.
  - scotty79 11y ago
    I think for that the rule 1 would have to state: "You don't hire female engineers. End of rule 1." There are some rules about male engineers but that doesn't preclude hiring women engineers. It just might have been that it's harder to form rules for them because of historically smaller sample to learn from.
mikeash 11y ago
It's one of those things that has a kernel of truth surrounded by an offensive and exaggerated wrapper, and which people love to use as a bludgeon to say that you're denying reality if you try to argue against it. Yes, you recruit and retain the significant other... too. The engineer (who may have a husband or a boyfriend!) actually does have a significant say as well. They both count. Stuff like "The paycheck goes to HER" is bullshit and demeans both the engineer and the significant other. If you ignore all the crazy shit, then yes, what's left is true.
scotty79 11y ago
Yup. Other bosses just call this "work life balance" and are praised that they pay attention to it. I'm sure the guy wrote a lot of worse things but this one is not particularly deranged.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  This is also the guy who sent out the email saying that if you're going to the hospital, make sure to take your laptop with you so you can keep working. I'm guessing employee work-life balance is not very high on his list of concerns.
  - scotty79 11y ago
    Yes. I've read other stuff he wrote. Pretty crazy. I just hope all the people that come in contact with this guy or others like him, are in position to show them a finger.
f137 11y ago
You mean a new job, or a new wife?

by wtbob 11y ago

Is this one of those true things we all agree not to talk about? Because I sure don't see anything wrong with it: if a guy's wife is unhappy with his job, then he'll get a new one.

douche 11y ago

Wife, or job?

RyanZAG 11y ago
Difficult to say, I've seen it go both ways. Depends on how much he likes the wife.
- DonHopkins 11y ago
  Well in Alex St. John's case, his messy divorce led to him getting fired from Microsoft by performing a George Costanza [1]: >But perhaps the most telling element of all of this is St. John’s own experience. In an interview by Christopher Redner [2], St. John himself suffered burn out at Microsoft to the point where he “got himself fired”. “He would pass out at his keyboard and straggle into morning meetings with key marks on his face. Worked sucked everything out of him; his marriage disintegrated.” >According to a Shacknews interview from 2007 [3], St. John was going through a “messy divorce” at the time. He wanted to get fired rather than quit, because that ensured he’d retain his stock options for Microsoft. [1] http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/alex-st-johns-ideas-about-game-development-are-terrifying/ http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/alex-st-johns-ideas-about-g... [2] http://www.informationtechnologyleaders.com/stvid.html http://www.informationtechnologyleaders.com/stvid.html [3] http://www.shacknews.com/article/46338/alex-st-john-interview http://www.shacknews.com/article/46338/alex-st-john-intervie...

untothebreach 11y ago

The problem here is not that an unhappy spouse will cause the employee to leave, but rather that the author makes the assumption that the employee will be male, and that the male will have a female SO.

rectang 11y ago
EXACTLY. So many people on this thread have not even noticed that women are not considered as candidates!
- douche 11y ago
  Because it says explicitly: > RULE 1: You don’t recruit and retain male engineers you recruit and retain Wives and Girlfriends" Reading is fundamental
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    The implication being that you don't recruit or retain female engineers at all.
    - douche 11y ago
      One could imply that if one were searching out reasons to get offended over a tongue-in-cheek powerpoint, which in fact features another slide specifically about female engineers.
    - lucozade 11y ago
      No the implication is that that's not how you manage female engineers, it's just how you manage male engineers. He says later that female engineers will go get promoted into non-engineering roles soon enough anyway. The implication there is you don't need to worry about retaining them as engineers as they won't stay that way. BTW this isn't an endorsement of either his views or his approach. I mean the general thrust of the presentation could be renamed "ways to stiff your staff". There are bits of it that ring true e.g. the different motivations between newbies, lifers and the rest. The majority though is clearly intended to be provocative.
- scotty79 11y ago
  I think for that the rule 1 would have to state: "You don't hire female engineers. End of rule 1." There are some rules about male engineers but that doesn't preclude hiring women engineers. It just might have been that it's harder to form rules for them because of historically smaller sample to learn from.

mikeash 11y ago

It's one of those things that has a kernel of truth surrounded by an offensive and exaggerated wrapper, and which people love to use as a bludgeon to say that you're denying reality if you try to argue against it. Yes, you recruit and retain the significant other... too. The engineer (who may have a husband or a boyfriend!) actually does have a significant say as well. They both count. Stuff like "The paycheck goes to HER" is bullshit and demeans both the engineer and the significant other. If you ignore all the crazy shit, then yes, what's left is true.

scotty79 11y ago

Yup. Other bosses just call this "work life balance" and are praised that they pay attention to it. I'm sure the guy wrote a lot of worse things but this one is not particularly deranged.

st3v3r 11y ago
This is also the guy who sent out the email saying that if you're going to the hospital, make sure to take your laptop with you so you can keep working. I'm guessing employee work-life balance is not very high on his list of concerns.
- scotty79 11y ago
  Yes. I've read other stuff he wrote. Pretty crazy. I just hope all the people that come in contact with this guy or others like him, are in position to show them a finger.

f137 11y ago

You mean a new job, or a new wife?