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I think, for better or worse, people choose role models who are like them. If you're a white male, your role models end up being white males. If you're a black

by imgabe 11y ago

I think, for better or worse, people choose role models who are like them. If you're a white male, your role models end up being white males. If you're a black female, you probably look up to other black females. Not exclusively or consciously, but it's probably the first place you look. "Who should I be like?" "Well, maybe that person who's already a little like me except older and more successful." When you combine that with the historical situations that people in positions of power have been white males, you have a much broader variety of role models for white males than for anyone else. That's not to say people can't or shouldn't choose role models who are a different race or gender than they are, just that it might not naturally be their first instinct.

Ntrails 11y ago
Your first role models are pretty much always going to be the people you have contact with from a young age. So we start with your parents, Extended family and Kindergarten teachers. Yes, we pick up other role models in our teens, but I think a lot of the "damage" is done by then. The expected roles have started to be processed and internalised.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  You've missed peers. They are likely more influential than teachers. (That they aren't "further along" doesn't mean that their behaviors and attitudes will not be adopted)
- ssmoot 11y ago
  She makes the exact argument supporting the parent though. That having people who look like her was incredibly important to her decision going into tech. Which is a real problem IMO. I didn't go to school. Most of the programmers I know didn't. So maybe it's part of that culture. But I didn't have much in the way of peers when I started. It was just the most promising career option I had. But the people I looked up to in tech weren't much like me other than their (mostly) maleness. And that wasn't a factor (for me). Martin Fowler, Uncle Bob, Matz, Roy Osherove, Jon Lam, Jamie Cansdale. They were just names on a page to me. Never met any of them. But I respected their abilities and what they wrote. I certainly never had a mentor (though my father in law did get me my first real tech job, subcontracting for minimum wage, busting out the less fun HTML side of things for his work for a few months). I'm incredibly grateful to him, but that wasn't going to build a real career. So I picked up a dozen or so books, read them front-to-back, and a year later was a c# developer. I feel like you have to want it for yourself. I could be totally wrong, and I have no idea how you'd measure such a thing, but for the non-college crowd at least, I've got to think stories more similar to my own are much more common than stories where someone found a group of people who looked like them they could consider mentors.
RodericDay 11y ago
I've always been extremely conscious of who my role models are, so this is my preferred explanation for any kind of achievement gaps. Many people reach out for "race and sex realism", or, historical-material explanations, but I think the power of media and role models rules in this space.

by imgabe 11y ago

Ntrails 11y ago

Your first role models are pretty much always going to be the people you have contact with from a young age. So we start with your parents, Extended family and Kindergarten teachers. Yes, we pick up other role models in our teens, but I think a lot of the "damage" is done by then. The expected roles have started to be processed and internalised.

maxerickson 11y ago
You've missed peers. They are likely more influential than teachers. (That they aren't "further along" doesn't mean that their behaviors and attitudes will not be adopted)
ssmoot 11y ago
She makes the exact argument supporting the parent though. That having people who look like her was incredibly important to her decision going into tech. Which is a real problem IMO. I didn't go to school. Most of the programmers I know didn't. So maybe it's part of that culture. But I didn't have much in the way of peers when I started. It was just the most promising career option I had. But the people I looked up to in tech weren't much like me other than their (mostly) maleness. And that wasn't a factor (for me). Martin Fowler, Uncle Bob, Matz, Roy Osherove, Jon Lam, Jamie Cansdale. They were just names on a page to me. Never met any of them. But I respected their abilities and what they wrote. I certainly never had a mentor (though my father in law did get me my first real tech job, subcontracting for minimum wage, busting out the less fun HTML side of things for his work for a few months). I'm incredibly grateful to him, but that wasn't going to build a real career. So I picked up a dozen or so books, read them front-to-back, and a year later was a c# developer. I feel like you have to want it for yourself. I could be totally wrong, and I have no idea how you'd measure such a thing, but for the non-college crowd at least, I've got to think stories more similar to my own are much more common than stories where someone found a group of people who looked like them they could consider mentors.

RodericDay 11y ago

I've always been extremely conscious of who my role models are, so this is my preferred explanation for any kind of achievement gaps. Many people reach out for "race and sex realism", or, historical-material explanations, but I think the power of media and role models rules in this space.