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Totally agree with you. I fail to see the point of attempting to harden Linux "containers" (Linux actually does not have container technology, since cgroups are

by Annatar 11y ago

Totally agree with you. I fail to see the point of attempting to harden Linux "containers" (Linux actually does not have container technology, since cgroups are not containers). Why bother with that, when illumos, and SmartOS on top of it, provide free, open source Solaris zones technology? Not even installation is required, since the thing runs from random access memory, and can run Linux at the speed of bare metal? Everybody is just flapping on Linux containers. Meanwhile illumos and SmartOS are eating Linux's lunch with techology which has been working reliably in Swiss banks since 2006, and it is free open source software. What's not to love? There are T-shirts which say "Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script." Now it's "Go away or I will virtualize your Linux inside of SmartOS." The damn thing runs like a bandit, while Linux containers keep on flapping trying to find a working solution with papers like these. Why bother, the problem has already been solved, go run SmartOS and enjoy a working solution!

z3t4 11y ago
SmartOS if very nice in theory. I tried to get SmartOS working on a new Supermicro server and failed, even though I got a lot of help from their awesome community and people at Joyent. Then I tried Linux (Ubuntu) and everything just worked! It was also very easy to find guides on the web for most things Linux.
- Annatar 11y ago
  If you want the JustWorks(SM), you have to get hardware which is on the Joyent engineering bill of materials' list, or research and buy hardware which illumos has drivers for. http://eng.joyent.com/manufacturing/bom.html http://eng.joyent.com/manufacturing/bom.html SmartOS being descended from Solaris has detailed manual pages built into the operating system, because when one runs a real UNIX, one is entitled to comprehensive documentation with lots of examples. A lot of the Oracle Solaris documentation, which is also very comprehensive, applies to and can be used on illumos derivatives. The SmartOS wiki and the smartos-discuss mailing list are good sources of SmartOS specific enhancements. Did I mention the built-in man pages yet?
- RantyDave 11y ago
  I've had a whole bunch of stuff just work. But if it doesn't, you're stuffed.
dozzie 11y ago
> Meanwhile illumos and SmartOS are eating Linux's lunch with techology which has been working reliably in Swiss banks since 2006 They would be eating Linux's lunch if they were used in any wider scale. A primary objection to Solaris zones and a reason they're not used widely is that they run on Solaris and not on Linux.
- dmpk2k 11y ago
  SmartOS has the LX brand; in other words, SmartOS can look like a Linux kernel if it wants to. I've used Ubuntu on SmartOS, and it worked flawlessly.
- Annatar 11y ago
  > They would be eating Linux's lunch if they were used in any wider scale. Linux took 20 years to make its way into the enterprises, and well, SmartOS has to start somewhere. We are only at the beginning of the journey, but with one major difference: unlike Linux, which is still maturing, an illumos based operating environment has 37 years of enterprise abuse and hardening behind it. > A primary objection to Solaris zones and a reason they're not used widely is that they run on Solaris and not on Linux. What exactly is objectionable about running a Solaris-like operating environment? If it is software, SmartOS provides ~14,000 packages: https://www.perkin.org.uk/posts/building-packages-at-scale.html https://www.perkin.org.uk/posts/building-packages-at-scale.h...
  - dozzie 11y ago
    > [...] well, SmartOS has to start somewhere. When SmartOS or generally Solaris-descendants' zones start being anywhere near popular, then we'll talk about eating Linux's lunch. For now the situation doesn't look like that even remotely. > What exactly is objectionable about running a Solaris-like operating environment? To me -- not much at first sight. But there is the factor of familiarity, which is very, very important. There are plenty of sysadmins, you know, who can recover Linux from almost any failure, and gaining similar knowledge in different OS takes quite long time. Solaris derivatives (or BSDs, for that matter) are at huge disadvantage to those people.

by Annatar 11y ago

z3t4 11y ago

SmartOS if very nice in theory. I tried to get SmartOS working on a new Supermicro server and failed, even though I got a lot of help from their awesome community and people at Joyent. Then I tried Linux (Ubuntu) and everything just worked! It was also very easy to find guides on the web for most things Linux.

Annatar 11y ago
If you want the JustWorks(SM), you have to get hardware which is on the Joyent engineering bill of materials' list, or research and buy hardware which illumos has drivers for. http://eng.joyent.com/manufacturing/bom.html http://eng.joyent.com/manufacturing/bom.html SmartOS being descended from Solaris has detailed manual pages built into the operating system, because when one runs a real UNIX, one is entitled to comprehensive documentation with lots of examples. A lot of the Oracle Solaris documentation, which is also very comprehensive, applies to and can be used on illumos derivatives. The SmartOS wiki and the smartos-discuss mailing list are good sources of SmartOS specific enhancements. Did I mention the built-in man pages yet?
RantyDave 11y ago
I've had a whole bunch of stuff just work. But if it doesn't, you're stuffed.

dozzie 11y ago

> Meanwhile illumos and SmartOS are eating Linux's lunch with techology which has been working reliably in Swiss banks since 2006 They would be eating Linux's lunch if they were used in any wider scale. A primary objection to Solaris zones and a reason they're not used widely is that they run on Solaris and not on Linux.

dmpk2k 11y ago
SmartOS has the LX brand; in other words, SmartOS can look like a Linux kernel if it wants to. I've used Ubuntu on SmartOS, and it worked flawlessly.
Annatar 11y ago
> They would be eating Linux's lunch if they were used in any wider scale. Linux took 20 years to make its way into the enterprises, and well, SmartOS has to start somewhere. We are only at the beginning of the journey, but with one major difference: unlike Linux, which is still maturing, an illumos based operating environment has 37 years of enterprise abuse and hardening behind it. > A primary objection to Solaris zones and a reason they're not used widely is that they run on Solaris and not on Linux. What exactly is objectionable about running a Solaris-like operating environment? If it is software, SmartOS provides ~14,000 packages: https://www.perkin.org.uk/posts/building-packages-at-scale.html https://www.perkin.org.uk/posts/building-packages-at-scale.h...
- dozzie 11y ago
  > [...] well, SmartOS has to start somewhere. When SmartOS or generally Solaris-descendants' zones start being anywhere near popular, then we'll talk about eating Linux's lunch. For now the situation doesn't look like that even remotely. > What exactly is objectionable about running a Solaris-like operating environment? To me -- not much at first sight. But there is the factor of familiarity, which is very, very important. There are plenty of sysadmins, you know, who can recover Linux from almost any failure, and gaining similar knowledge in different OS takes quite long time. Solaris derivatives (or BSDs, for that matter) are at huge disadvantage to those people.