6 ms·

In the US there are groups of poor whites and poor blacks, the crime rates are not the same, they exhibit stark differences.

by cb18 10y ago

golergka 10y ago
What if you account for rural/urban populations? Population density always has an effect on crime rate
- cb18 10y ago
  I'm sure somebody's tried it. But the differences are so large that no amount of statistical trickery is going to be able to make them go away. http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-liberal-media-darent-talk-about/ http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-lib... One must also consider that it isn't the density per se, but the populations. For example, you could compare two equally dense areas but made up of different population groups. You would find a difference.
  - dd36 10y ago
    isn't infowars a crackpot site?
    - cb18 10y ago
      It's not a site I frequent, I think it may have a bit of that brand image, but not like ufo bigfoot or whatever crackpot levels. That article is just a simple and clear telling of sourced facts that came up when I was searching for some facts.
      - kyllo 10y ago
        What crackpot level is wearing an alien lizard mask while ranting about Obamacare?
        cb18 10y ago
        level 9
    - orbitur 10y ago
      Yes.
      - cb18 10y ago
        Everyone's entitled to their own crackpots, but not their own facts.
  - homogeneous 10y ago
    What is often missed in these statistics is that 90% of the homicides committed by black citizens are committed against black citizens, so it's not surprising that blacks are overrepresented in homicide statistics since they are overrepresented in poor income neighborhoods where all the problems inherent to poverty exacerbate the cycle of violence.
    - cb18 10y ago
      So poor blacks kill each other in huge numbers, and poor whites don't. What's your point exactly? Also, maybe you missed the black on white numbers which are off the charts compared to the inverse.
      - homogeneous 10y ago
        > So poor blacks kill each other in huge numbers, and poor whites don't. What's your point exactly? 90% of black murder victims are killed by black perpetrators, 84% of white murder victims are killed by white perpetrators, so I'm not sure why you suggested that poor white people don't kill each other. My point is that the higher black on black homicide rate is what we'd expect to see for a population that is disproportionately concentrated into densely populated low income regions, which will push up their representation in overall homicide stats. > Also, maybe you missed the black on white numbers which are off the charts compared to the inverse What exactly does off the charts mean? 13.6% of white murders are committed by black people, 7.6% of black murders are committed by white people, so yes, blacks murder whites at a higher rate, that is clear, but what is your point?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - Pyxl101 10y ago
      Controlling for poverty does not remove the effect where blacks commit more crime than whites. > As a means to assess these possibilities, I estimate separate regression equations for the black and white block groups in Atlanta. [...] Consistent with previous research, percent black retains a strong, significant effect on violent crime net of the effects of other controls. [...] Although this finding appears to provide partial support for the racial invariance assumption, the fact remains that for a large proportion of the black neighborhoods, the effect of disadvantage on violence is weaker than is the effect evident among all of the white neighborhoods in the analysis http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/McNulty_Crim01.pdf http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/McN... More white people than black live in poverty, yet blacks commit crime at far higher rates. For statistics see FBI and DOJ crime data: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43/10tbl43a.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/... https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/... http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf This topic could use more good science and research.
  - soundwave106 10y ago
    The problem here is knowing what really is the cause and what is the effect. It is well known that, in the United States, drug usage between all races tends to trend roughly the same. However, the arrest rate for blacks is much, much higher. See these charts for marijuana. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-b... One possible explanation, of course, is indeed that blacks are more likely to be arrested while committing another serious crime. Hence the gap. An alternate explanation reverses the argument: blacks may be more prone to commit serious crimes because they are more likely to be arrested for trivial crimes like marijuana usage. Prison does have social consequences after all (eg, people are less willing to hire someone with an arrest record; prison can establish contacts with underground economies that are more likely to utilize violence to settle disputes; prison can tear apart families; etc. -- http://www.economist.com/node/708550 http://www.economist.com/node/708550 ) and since America is not keen on reintegrating criminals into society (a very high rate of recidivism compared to most countries -- http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/documents/Incarceration_and_Recidivism.pdf http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/document... and http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-... ), it is very possible that early arrests for modest crimes lead to later arrests for worse crimes later.

In the US there are groups of poor whites and poor blacks, the crime rates are not the same, they exhibit stark differences.

by cb18 10y ago

In the US there are groups of poor whites and poor blacks, the crime rates are not the same, they exhibit stark differences.

golergka 10y ago

What if you account for rural/urban populations? Population density always has an effect on crime rate

cb18 10y ago
I'm sure somebody's tried it. But the differences are so large that no amount of statistical trickery is going to be able to make them go away. http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-liberal-media-darent-talk-about/ http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-lib... One must also consider that it isn't the density per se, but the populations. For example, you could compare two equally dense areas but made up of different population groups. You would find a difference.
- dd36 10y ago
  isn't infowars a crackpot site?
  - cb18 10y ago
    It's not a site I frequent, I think it may have a bit of that brand image, but not like ufo bigfoot or whatever crackpot levels. That article is just a simple and clear telling of sourced facts that came up when I was searching for some facts.
    - kyllo 10y ago
      What crackpot level is wearing an alien lizard mask while ranting about Obamacare?
      - cb18 10y ago
        level 9
  - orbitur 10y ago
    Yes.
    - cb18 10y ago
      Everyone's entitled to their own crackpots, but not their own facts.
- homogeneous 10y ago
  What is often missed in these statistics is that 90% of the homicides committed by black citizens are committed against black citizens, so it's not surprising that blacks are overrepresented in homicide statistics since they are overrepresented in poor income neighborhoods where all the problems inherent to poverty exacerbate the cycle of violence.
  - cb18 10y ago
    So poor blacks kill each other in huge numbers, and poor whites don't. What's your point exactly? Also, maybe you missed the black on white numbers which are off the charts compared to the inverse.
    - homogeneous 10y ago
      > So poor blacks kill each other in huge numbers, and poor whites don't. What's your point exactly? 90% of black murder victims are killed by black perpetrators, 84% of white murder victims are killed by white perpetrators, so I'm not sure why you suggested that poor white people don't kill each other. My point is that the higher black on black homicide rate is what we'd expect to see for a population that is disproportionately concentrated into densely populated low income regions, which will push up their representation in overall homicide stats. > Also, maybe you missed the black on white numbers which are off the charts compared to the inverse What exactly does off the charts mean? 13.6% of white murders are committed by black people, 7.6% of black murders are committed by white people, so yes, blacks murder whites at a higher rate, that is clear, but what is your point?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Pyxl101 10y ago
    Controlling for poverty does not remove the effect where blacks commit more crime than whites. > As a means to assess these possibilities, I estimate separate regression equations for the black and white block groups in Atlanta. [...] Consistent with previous research, percent black retains a strong, significant effect on violent crime net of the effects of other controls. [...] Although this finding appears to provide partial support for the racial invariance assumption, the fact remains that for a large proportion of the black neighborhoods, the effect of disadvantage on violence is weaker than is the effect evident among all of the white neighborhoods in the analysis http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/McNulty_Crim01.pdf http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/McN... More white people than black live in poverty, yet blacks commit crime at far higher rates. For statistics see FBI and DOJ crime data: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43/10tbl43a.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/... https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/... http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf This topic could use more good science and research.
- soundwave106 10y ago
  The problem here is knowing what really is the cause and what is the effect. It is well known that, in the United States, drug usage between all races tends to trend roughly the same. However, the arrest rate for blacks is much, much higher. See these charts for marijuana. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-b... One possible explanation, of course, is indeed that blacks are more likely to be arrested while committing another serious crime. Hence the gap. An alternate explanation reverses the argument: blacks may be more prone to commit serious crimes because they are more likely to be arrested for trivial crimes like marijuana usage. Prison does have social consequences after all (eg, people are less willing to hire someone with an arrest record; prison can establish contacts with underground economies that are more likely to utilize violence to settle disputes; prison can tear apart families; etc. -- http://www.economist.com/node/708550 http://www.economist.com/node/708550 ) and since America is not keen on reintegrating criminals into society (a very high rate of recidivism compared to most countries -- http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/documents/Incarceration_and_Recidivism.pdf http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/document... and http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-... ), it is very possible that early arrests for modest crimes lead to later arrests for worse crimes later.