7 ms·

How does this effect the supply chain? Let me re-phrase that, are we still criminalizing the supply side? If so, we're just exporting our violence south of th

by brebla 10y ago

How does this effect the supply chain? Let me re-phrase that, are we still criminalizing the supply side? If so, we're just exporting our violence south of the USA border.

schwap 10y ago
Based on the following quote: > “We will introduce legislation in spring 2017 that ensures we keep marijuana out of the hands of children and profits out of the hands of criminals,” It sounds like they plan on legitimizing the whole thing.
martythemaniak 10y ago
No, they have promised legalization. However there's virtually no chance of this being a free-for-all. What I expect the main features to be: - Certified and regulated producers, though not numerically limited - heavily-taxed. - no problems growing your own. - retail distribution depends on province. More liberal in BC, government-run in Ontario. - separate certifications for places "serving" (ie, pot cafes). Can't take it home with you.
- allisthemoist 10y ago
  In other words, regulated in a way that is very close to how alcohol is currently sold in Ontario.
  - dmix 10y ago
    The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison. So I'm curious what effect this will have on prices. Because if pricing is anything like alcohol in Ontario then there will still be a lively black market and, if legalized, a personal-growing boom. In Ontario alcohol can only be bought at two government run retail stores called LCBO and "The Beer Store" at much higher prices than the US and even Montreal. Unlike in some other provinces you can't walk into a grocery or corner store, you have to go to the predefined locations of the alcohol stores, which typically close at 9pm, making it harder to get alcohol. Especially if you don't drive. I hope they don't make the same mistake with weed, because the market dynamics are different.
    - allisthemoist 10y ago
      quality marijuana. Quality would definitely be the main difference. Although I have friends that have made decent wine and beer themselves.
      - dmix 10y ago
        The bar is much for wine/beer higher than weed in terms of quality. And whiskey/rum/voldka is not even an option. This is largely due to gains in technology due to hydroponics and decades of seed cultivation. That plus the extend time weed has been on the black market made the information on how to grow it widely available to average consumers. No trade secrets there really.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - OldSchoolJohnny 10y ago
      Speaking as someone with experience and friends who do both I can assure you it's far easier to make quality beer than it is to learn all the ins and outs of growing quality cannabis. You have it exactly backwards.
      - mistermann 10y ago
        Is potency a significant portion of "quality", in which case you could just smoke twice as much? Or is the effects different if you don't do it properly?
    - chrisweekly 10y ago
      > "The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison." wat? my friend, i fear you have overlooked modern homebrewing; world-class beer is being made in peoples' kitchens / basements / garages all over the place. :)
      - 10y ago
- ant6n 10y ago
  ...I'd prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building with their skunk stench.
  - wk_end 10y ago
    Me too, to be honest, but I'd also prefer them not to go to jail for it.
  - olejorgenb 10y ago
    Which is a separate issue. I prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building by [cooking smelly food|smearing shit on their walls|...], but that shouldn't make it illegal. The housing association/board (or whatever the proper english term is) might have something to say though.
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      > I prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building by [cooking smelly food|smearing shit on their walls|...], but that shouldn't make it illegal. This example could have been chosen better. While you're correct that your dislike of the smell isn't, in the absence of other facts, a great reason for criminalizing your neighbors smearing shit on their walls, that is in fact illegal, it is illegal for very good reasons, and you dislike the smell for the same reasons doing it is illegal. In that case, the smell is actually telling you something important. I think we have more of a "this has to be allowed" exception for cooking food than we have a general policy of "we won't take smells into account when deciding what's allowed".
  - leesalminen 10y ago
    There are plenty of commercial grade filters available for just about any space. Perhaps your HOA/apartment complex could form regulations around ventilation, filtration, waste disposal, etc..
    - ant6n 10y ago
      I live in a triplex from 1910. My 'ventilation' is opening the front and back balcony door. The outside air often stinks like skunk. It's actually pretty nauseating.
- developer2 10y ago
  We'll have to see whether grow-at-home will be permitted. Here in Canada it is illegal to operate a spirits distillery in your home. I wouldn't be surprised if it is not legalized, as it opens up avenues for "criminal selling", ie: people growing at home and selling it - bypassing taxation. And, let's be honest, government revenue from taxation is the real reason legalization is even on the table. It doesn't matter how grow-at-home laws will be written. There will always be those people who will exceed the "personal plants limit" to grow and sell to friends / the street. Especially if legally obtainable strains wind up being very limited, or if the tax is too expensive. The whole system including strain restrictions and pricing (+ taxation) is going to be interesting to watch unfold. If officials think that your average daily consumers - not the new people who will toke once legal, but those who already consume daily - are going to tolerate an increase of any amount for the product... enjoy the black market that will continue to proliferate. I do love the lackluster "legalization will keep weed out of kids' hands!" How exactly does that way of thinking even begin to work? ;)
  - aianus 10y ago
    > If officials think that your average daily consumers - not the new people who will toke once legal, but those who already consume daily - are going to tolerate an increase of any amount for the product... enjoy the black market that will continue to proliferate. I'm sure most people will pay more for better quality, same way I buy wine from LCBO instead of fermenting it myself in plastic barrels (which I could totally do for 1/10 the price).
    - leesalminen 10y ago
      I live in Colorado, and thought it was going to be the same way for myself and for the general public. However, over the past year or so I've found it more convenient to visit a store than my "guy". There's a store within walking distance to my home, predictable hours, regular sales and loyalty programs. All in all, I'm happy to pay more for those things. Many feel the same. Yes, the black market will still exist- but I think you'll see more local growers fueling the market than south of the border cartels.
  - 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
topherbullock 10y ago
Legalizing sale and taxation through govt supported venues, much like how alcohol is sold in Canada. Still illegal to sell it as an individual without a permit from the govt, as is the case with alcohol in Canada.
- alanctgardner3 10y ago
  Alcohol sales (and drinking age) vary across provinces - I don't think any will let you sell your homemade liquor, but Ontario is very restrictive, while Quebec (for example) is relatively relaxed.
vegabook 10y ago
We've truly legitimized, if not quite yet legalized, when we're applying biz jargon like "supply chain" to dope. I'll just send My Man an application to the INSEAD MBA programme....
bickfordb 10y ago
I don't know about the Canadian proposal, but in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, all recreational sales go through a government controlled agricultural pipeline (not Mexico).

by brebla 10y ago

How does this effect the supply chain? Let me re-phrase that, are we still criminalizing the supply side? If so, we're just exporting our violence south of the USA border.

schwap 10y ago

Based on the following quote: > “We will introduce legislation in spring 2017 that ensures we keep marijuana out of the hands of children and profits out of the hands of criminals,” It sounds like they plan on legitimizing the whole thing.

martythemaniak 10y ago

No, they have promised legalization. However there's virtually no chance of this being a free-for-all. What I expect the main features to be: - Certified and regulated producers, though not numerically limited - heavily-taxed. - no problems growing your own. - retail distribution depends on province. More liberal in BC, government-run in Ontario. - separate certifications for places "serving" (ie, pot cafes). Can't take it home with you.

allisthemoist 10y ago
In other words, regulated in a way that is very close to how alcohol is currently sold in Ontario.
- dmix 10y ago
  The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison. So I'm curious what effect this will have on prices. Because if pricing is anything like alcohol in Ontario then there will still be a lively black market and, if legalized, a personal-growing boom. In Ontario alcohol can only be bought at two government run retail stores called LCBO and "The Beer Store" at much higher prices than the US and even Montreal. Unlike in some other provinces you can't walk into a grocery or corner store, you have to go to the predefined locations of the alcohol stores, which typically close at 9pm, making it harder to get alcohol. Especially if you don't drive. I hope they don't make the same mistake with weed, because the market dynamics are different.
  - allisthemoist 10y ago
    quality marijuana. Quality would definitely be the main difference. Although I have friends that have made decent wine and beer themselves.
    - dmix 10y ago
      The bar is much for wine/beer higher than weed in terms of quality. And whiskey/rum/voldka is not even an option. This is largely due to gains in technology due to hydroponics and decades of seed cultivation. That plus the extend time weed has been on the black market made the information on how to grow it widely available to average consumers. No trade secrets there really.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - OldSchoolJohnny 10y ago
    Speaking as someone with experience and friends who do both I can assure you it's far easier to make quality beer than it is to learn all the ins and outs of growing quality cannabis. You have it exactly backwards.
    - mistermann 10y ago
      Is potency a significant portion of "quality", in which case you could just smoke twice as much? Or is the effects different if you don't do it properly?
  - chrisweekly 10y ago
    > "The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison." wat? my friend, i fear you have overlooked modern homebrewing; world-class beer is being made in peoples' kitchens / basements / garages all over the place. :)
    - 10y ago
ant6n 10y ago
...I'd prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building with their skunk stench.
- wk_end 10y ago
  Me too, to be honest, but I'd also prefer them not to go to jail for it.
- olejorgenb 10y ago
  Which is a separate issue. I prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building by [cooking smelly food|smearing shit on their walls|...], but that shouldn't make it illegal. The housing association/board (or whatever the proper english term is) might have something to say though.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > I prefer my neighbors not to stink up the whole building by [cooking smelly food|smearing shit on their walls|...], but that shouldn't make it illegal. This example could have been chosen better. While you're correct that your dislike of the smell isn't, in the absence of other facts, a great reason for criminalizing your neighbors smearing shit on their walls, that is in fact illegal, it is illegal for very good reasons, and you dislike the smell for the same reasons doing it is illegal. In that case, the smell is actually telling you something important. I think we have more of a "this has to be allowed" exception for cooking food than we have a general policy of "we won't take smells into account when deciding what's allowed".
- leesalminen 10y ago
  There are plenty of commercial grade filters available for just about any space. Perhaps your HOA/apartment complex could form regulations around ventilation, filtration, waste disposal, etc..
  - ant6n 10y ago
    I live in a triplex from 1910. My 'ventilation' is opening the front and back balcony door. The outside air often stinks like skunk. It's actually pretty nauseating.
developer2 10y ago
We'll have to see whether grow-at-home will be permitted. Here in Canada it is illegal to operate a spirits distillery in your home. I wouldn't be surprised if it is not legalized, as it opens up avenues for "criminal selling", ie: people growing at home and selling it - bypassing taxation. And, let's be honest, government revenue from taxation is the real reason legalization is even on the table. It doesn't matter how grow-at-home laws will be written. There will always be those people who will exceed the "personal plants limit" to grow and sell to friends / the street. Especially if legally obtainable strains wind up being very limited, or if the tax is too expensive. The whole system including strain restrictions and pricing (+ taxation) is going to be interesting to watch unfold. If officials think that your average daily consumers - not the new people who will toke once legal, but those who already consume daily - are going to tolerate an increase of any amount for the product... enjoy the black market that will continue to proliferate. I do love the lackluster "legalization will keep weed out of kids' hands!" How exactly does that way of thinking even begin to work? ;)
- aianus 10y ago
  > If officials think that your average daily consumers - not the new people who will toke once legal, but those who already consume daily - are going to tolerate an increase of any amount for the product... enjoy the black market that will continue to proliferate. I'm sure most people will pay more for better quality, same way I buy wine from LCBO instead of fermenting it myself in plastic barrels (which I could totally do for 1/10 the price).
  - leesalminen 10y ago
    I live in Colorado, and thought it was going to be the same way for myself and for the general public. However, over the past year or so I've found it more convenient to visit a store than my "guy". There's a store within walking distance to my home, predictable hours, regular sales and loyalty programs. All in all, I'm happy to pay more for those things. Many feel the same. Yes, the black market will still exist- but I think you'll see more local growers fueling the market than south of the border cartels.
- 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

topherbullock 10y ago

Legalizing sale and taxation through govt supported venues, much like how alcohol is sold in Canada. Still illegal to sell it as an individual without a permit from the govt, as is the case with alcohol in Canada.

alanctgardner3 10y ago
Alcohol sales (and drinking age) vary across provinces - I don't think any will let you sell your homemade liquor, but Ontario is very restrictive, while Quebec (for example) is relatively relaxed.

vegabook 10y ago

We've truly legitimized, if not quite yet legalized, when we're applying biz jargon like "supply chain" to dope. I'll just send My Man an application to the INSEAD MBA programme....

bickfordb 10y ago

I don't know about the Canadian proposal, but in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, all recreational sales go through a government controlled agricultural pipeline (not Mexico).