6 ms·

I am not a hardware guy, but honestly, they should mini-fy XB360 and make it appleTV competitor but with a huge game library.

by sremani 11y ago

dsp1234 11y ago
but with a huge game library They have actually backported quite a few games[0] to run on the Xbox One (where you can use the original disk, or now even buy them as digital downloads). So my guess is that they are likely to push for more Xbox One sales (where buyers have the convenience of playing either era of game) rather than try to create a mini-device that would only be able to play older games and not newer ones. [0] - http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/available-games http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/av...
- sjs382 11y ago
  But that misses the parent's point. At $300, the Xbox One isn't an AppleTV competitor.
  - untog 11y ago
    Sure, but it would eat a non-zero amount of Xbox One sales. Presumably that's why Microsoft isn't about to do it.
    - undersuit 11y ago
      Wouldn't that have been a concern these last two and a half years anyways?
    - dsp1234 11y ago
      That's certainly what I was getting at. An AppleTV doesn't take away from sales of any other Apple product (that I know of). Whereas this theoretical product might take away from Xbox one sales (which they target as a TV + multimedia + gaming system).
- throwanem 11y ago
  That's not a backport, that's just a port. Backporting would be converting XBox One games to run on the 360.
valarauca1 11y ago
I am a hardware guy. Cooling would be a small issue (but additional die shrinks may make it possible) There were 3 generations on Xenon which powered Xbox360 (90nm (2005), 65nm (2007), 48nm (2010+))[1]. Modern processes are 28, 16/14 (10nm is Intel only really and Xenons were fabbed GlobalFoundry) [1]. The 2005 vs 2010 models reduced power consumption reduced power consumption from 177watts, to 88watts (under intensive gameplay) [2]. So realistically there are 2(ish) nodes available 28nm and 14/16nm [3]. Which could likely (best case scenario) halve power down to 50-40watts. Apple TV by comparison uses 1.8watts [4]. Passive cooling is possible, but the case foot print would be larger. I'm not a thermodynamics guy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor) [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-inside-the-new-250gb-xbox-360-slim/3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-insid... [3] 14nm/16nm are 28nm but a different gate style. Features are still 28nm. Also I'm assuming GlobalFoundry is calling their 45nm node 48nm because they called their 14nm node 16nm. [4] http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1332241339 http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id...
- WoodenChair 11y ago
  Those are stats for the Apple TV third generation. The fourth generation is significantly different and uses more power but it's hard for me to find an exact official number from Apple. I don't think it's much more though.
  - jsheard 11y ago
    According to iFixit the 4th gens PSU is rated at 12V@0.917A, so it maxes out at 11 watts. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Teardown/49046 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Tear...
  - meepmorp 11y ago
    I got curious and found this: https://www.apple.com/vn/environment/pdf/products/appletv/AppleTV_PER_oct2015pdf.pdf https://www.apple.com/vn/environment/pdf/products/appletv/Ap... Looks like about 0.2-0.3 watts in standby, a bit under 2.5 for content streaming. The power supply is spec'd at 11 watts.
andersen1488 11y ago
That's basically the Nvidia Shield
JohnTHaller 11y ago
If it wasn't going to eat into Xbox One sales, I'm sure Microsoft would consider it. The Xbox 360 makes a far better media center than the Xbox One does. The apps on the 360 crash less then on the One and dealing with crashed apps on the 360 is much more reliable. For example, when your YouTube app crashes/hangs on the Xbox One, returning to the menu does nothing as the app pauses/runs in the background. You can hit the menu button (akin to a right-click) on the YouTube icon and select Quit. If you run YouTube again, it'll still be running and crashed. The trick is to menu button and quit YouTube and then run a couple other video apps (usually Netflix and Hulu do the trick). This is usually enough to fully offload the YouTube process and allow it to run again. This is how Microsoft's flagship entertainment console works. In 2016. Seriously. Everytime our cat sitter watches our place, I have the Xbox 360 hooked up for her to watch videos on. It's easier to use and more reliable.
- daveidol 11y ago
  If you quit the app with the menu button then it is quit completely. Essentially, the "home" functionality works just like on iOS or Android. You're right that it is not always intuitive in situations when an app is hanging/frozen, but I'm not sure why you have to open other apps to get it to quit - I've never had that problem. Disclosure: I used to work on the Xbox Live team at MSFT but no longer do.
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    That may be what's supposed to happen and what does in testing, but that's not real world behavior. I had the YouTube app crash on my Xbox One just yesterday. I hit menu and selected quit. Waited a few seconds. Hit menu again and quit wasn't an available option which should mean that it's done being force quit. Started YouTube again and it will still hung playing audio with a frozen picture. Sometimes I'll start it again and it'll just show the YouTube logo for a few seconds then return to home. It'll often do this a few times in a row. I have maybe 6 people in my neighborhood with Xbox Ones that all experience the same issues.
    - 11y ago
kalleboo 11y ago
Sony tried to do something similar with the PlayStation TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV

I am not a hardware guy, but honestly, they should mini-fy XB360 and make it appleTV competitor but with a huge game library.

by sremani 11y ago

I am not a hardware guy, but honestly, they should mini-fy XB360 and make it appleTV competitor but with a huge game library.

dsp1234 11y ago

but with a huge game library They have actually backported quite a few games[0] to run on the Xbox One (where you can use the original disk, or now even buy them as digital downloads). So my guess is that they are likely to push for more Xbox One sales (where buyers have the convenience of playing either era of game) rather than try to create a mini-device that would only be able to play older games and not newer ones. [0] - http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/available-games http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/av...

sjs382 11y ago
But that misses the parent's point. At $300, the Xbox One isn't an AppleTV competitor.
- untog 11y ago
  Sure, but it would eat a non-zero amount of Xbox One sales. Presumably that's why Microsoft isn't about to do it.
  - undersuit 11y ago
    Wouldn't that have been a concern these last two and a half years anyways?
  - dsp1234 11y ago
    That's certainly what I was getting at. An AppleTV doesn't take away from sales of any other Apple product (that I know of). Whereas this theoretical product might take away from Xbox one sales (which they target as a TV + multimedia + gaming system).
throwanem 11y ago
That's not a backport, that's just a port. Backporting would be converting XBox One games to run on the 360.

valarauca1 11y ago

I am a hardware guy. Cooling would be a small issue (but additional die shrinks may make it possible) There were 3 generations on Xenon which powered Xbox360 (90nm (2005), 65nm (2007), 48nm (2010+))[1]. Modern processes are 28, 16/14 (10nm is Intel only really and Xenons were fabbed GlobalFoundry) [1]. The 2005 vs 2010 models reduced power consumption reduced power consumption from 177watts, to 88watts (under intensive gameplay) [2]. So realistically there are 2(ish) nodes available 28nm and 14/16nm [3]. Which could likely (best case scenario) halve power down to 50-40watts. Apple TV by comparison uses 1.8watts [4]. Passive cooling is possible, but the case foot print would be larger. I'm not a thermodynamics guy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor) [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-inside-the-new-250gb-xbox-360-slim/3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-insid... [3] 14nm/16nm are 28nm but a different gate style. Features are still 28nm. Also I'm assuming GlobalFoundry is calling their 45nm node 48nm because they called their 14nm node 16nm. [4] http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1332241339 http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id...

WoodenChair 11y ago
Those are stats for the Apple TV third generation. The fourth generation is significantly different and uses more power but it's hard for me to find an exact official number from Apple. I don't think it's much more though.
- jsheard 11y ago
  According to iFixit the 4th gens PSU is rated at 12V@0.917A, so it maxes out at 11 watts. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Teardown/49046 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Tear...
- meepmorp 11y ago
  I got curious and found this: https://www.apple.com/vn/environment/pdf/products/appletv/AppleTV_PER_oct2015pdf.pdf https://www.apple.com/vn/environment/pdf/products/appletv/Ap... Looks like about 0.2-0.3 watts in standby, a bit under 2.5 for content streaming. The power supply is spec'd at 11 watts.

andersen1488 11y ago

That's basically the Nvidia Shield

JohnTHaller 11y ago

If it wasn't going to eat into Xbox One sales, I'm sure Microsoft would consider it. The Xbox 360 makes a far better media center than the Xbox One does. The apps on the 360 crash less then on the One and dealing with crashed apps on the 360 is much more reliable. For example, when your YouTube app crashes/hangs on the Xbox One, returning to the menu does nothing as the app pauses/runs in the background. You can hit the menu button (akin to a right-click) on the YouTube icon and select Quit. If you run YouTube again, it'll still be running and crashed. The trick is to menu button and quit YouTube and then run a couple other video apps (usually Netflix and Hulu do the trick). This is usually enough to fully offload the YouTube process and allow it to run again. This is how Microsoft's flagship entertainment console works. In 2016. Seriously. Everytime our cat sitter watches our place, I have the Xbox 360 hooked up for her to watch videos on. It's easier to use and more reliable.

daveidol 11y ago
If you quit the app with the menu button then it is quit completely. Essentially, the "home" functionality works just like on iOS or Android. You're right that it is not always intuitive in situations when an app is hanging/frozen, but I'm not sure why you have to open other apps to get it to quit - I've never had that problem. Disclosure: I used to work on the Xbox Live team at MSFT but no longer do.
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  That may be what's supposed to happen and what does in testing, but that's not real world behavior. I had the YouTube app crash on my Xbox One just yesterday. I hit menu and selected quit. Waited a few seconds. Hit menu again and quit wasn't an available option which should mean that it's done being force quit. Started YouTube again and it will still hung playing audio with a frozen picture. Sometimes I'll start it again and it'll just show the YouTube logo for a few seconds then return to home. It'll often do this a few times in a row. I have maybe 6 people in my neighborhood with Xbox Ones that all experience the same issues.
  - 11y ago

kalleboo 11y ago

Sony tried to do something similar with the PlayStation TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV