5 ms·

We should just cure these diseases. Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to c

We should just cure these diseases. Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change; therapeutic interventions, however, can keep getting better and cheaper.

ethanbond 11y ago
With the risk being that we breed immunity into the population, seeing as it's still being carried and evolving in its carriers (the mosquitos). FWIW, we could "cure" a lot of these diseases. We have, in rich parts of the world. If the option was between "we distribute cures to forgotten diseases to everyone who needs them" versus "we take a gamble and murder all the mosquitos," I might agree the former would be the better bet. That's not the choice we're given because not enough people in the first world want to step up in a serious enough way.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  It doesn't really take that many people; these need not be expensive programs. It's a matter of political will, but a serious vector control program would be no different. In any event, learning how to control human diseases and prevent parasites from killing us seems like a very fundamental goal of medicine which should be accomplished in any eventuality. Eradicating mosquitoes need not be. Also, regarding resistance, it is much easier to track and defeat resistance in human patients than to track and defeat resistance in wild populations of mosquitoes, which is what we'll be doing if we try eradication campaigns.
Turing_Machine 11y ago
" Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change" With CRISPR and gene drive, it changes from "fucking hard" to "trivial", so it is not only likely to change, it's already changed.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes? As far as I know this is still in the realm of theory. And given that we're talking about a single resistance mechanism, I'm going to guess that it will very quickly be defeated by evolution. DDT was the "perfect" mosquito killer, as well. It didn't last - resistance inevitably follows these attempts in wild populations.
  - Turing_Machine 11y ago
    Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes? So your argument is that it can't be done because no one has done it? No one has released gene drive systems to the wild, but there is every reason to believe that it will work fine, and no credible reason to believe that it won't.
    - astazangasta 11y ago
      Err, I can give you a credible reason to believe that it won't: the parasite will inevitably develop resistance. Here is the paper where they talk about the mechanism of resistance being conferred on the mosquito: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/E1922.abstract http://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/E1922.abstract The mechanism is this: "These scFvs are derived from antibodies specific to a parasite chitinase, the 25 kDa protein and the circumsporozoite protein, respectively." So you'll spend a ton of money building a fancy CRISPR system in your mosquitoes, release them into the wild, and in a matter of months you will have parasites with on-target mutations in these proteins that will allow them to evade your resistance mechanism. I'd lay $1000 on this without blinking. You're basically talking about curing malaria in mosquitoes. Why not, instead, just cure malaria in humans?
      - Turing_Machine 11y ago
        First, you're confusing wiping out the mosquito species with giving the mosquitos resistance to the malaria parasite. Those are two different things. Second, there is no reason that a CRISPR-based system is limited to a single target. Will you also lay $1,000 against a system that targets ten species-unique sequences at once? You're basically talking about curing malaria in mosquitoes. Neither I nor the article is talking about that. It's a discussion of making the mosquito species itself extinct.
libeclipse 11y ago
>We should just cure these diseases. Much, much easier said than done.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  It is just the application of money, time and effort. Total global funding for malaria research is ~ half a billion dollars. I imagine if we, say, multiplied this by ten, it would have a susbstantial effect on improving outcomes.

ethanbond 11y ago

With the risk being that we breed immunity into the population, seeing as it's still being carried and evolving in its carriers (the mosquitos). FWIW, we could "cure" a lot of these diseases. We have, in rich parts of the world. If the option was between "we distribute cures to forgotten diseases to everyone who needs them" versus "we take a gamble and murder all the mosquitos," I might agree the former would be the better bet. That's not the choice we're given because not enough people in the first world want to step up in a serious enough way.

astazangasta 11y ago
It doesn't really take that many people; these need not be expensive programs. It's a matter of political will, but a serious vector control program would be no different. In any event, learning how to control human diseases and prevent parasites from killing us seems like a very fundamental goal of medicine which should be accomplished in any eventuality. Eradicating mosquitoes need not be. Also, regarding resistance, it is much easier to track and defeat resistance in human patients than to track and defeat resistance in wild populations of mosquitoes, which is what we'll be doing if we try eradication campaigns.

Turing_Machine 11y ago

" Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change" With CRISPR and gene drive, it changes from "fucking hard" to "trivial", so it is not only likely to change, it's already changed.

astazangasta 11y ago
Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes? As far as I know this is still in the realm of theory. And given that we're talking about a single resistance mechanism, I'm going to guess that it will very quickly be defeated by evolution. DDT was the "perfect" mosquito killer, as well. It didn't last - resistance inevitably follows these attempts in wild populations.
- Turing_Machine 11y ago
  Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes? So your argument is that it can't be done because no one has done it? No one has released gene drive systems to the wild, but there is every reason to believe that it will work fine, and no credible reason to believe that it won't.
  - astazangasta 11y ago
    Err, I can give you a credible reason to believe that it won't: the parasite will inevitably develop resistance. Here is the paper where they talk about the mechanism of resistance being conferred on the mosquito: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/E1922.abstract http://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/E1922.abstract The mechanism is this: "These scFvs are derived from antibodies specific to a parasite chitinase, the 25 kDa protein and the circumsporozoite protein, respectively." So you'll spend a ton of money building a fancy CRISPR system in your mosquitoes, release them into the wild, and in a matter of months you will have parasites with on-target mutations in these proteins that will allow them to evade your resistance mechanism. I'd lay $1000 on this without blinking. You're basically talking about curing malaria in mosquitoes. Why not, instead, just cure malaria in humans?
    - Turing_Machine 11y ago
      First, you're confusing wiping out the mosquito species with giving the mosquitos resistance to the malaria parasite. Those are two different things. Second, there is no reason that a CRISPR-based system is limited to a single target. Will you also lay $1,000 against a system that targets ten species-unique sequences at once? You're basically talking about curing malaria in mosquitoes. Neither I nor the article is talking about that. It's a discussion of making the mosquito species itself extinct.

libeclipse 11y ago

>We should just cure these diseases. Much, much easier said than done.

astazangasta 11y ago
It is just the application of money, time and effort. Total global funding for malaria research is ~ half a billion dollars. I imagine if we, say, multiplied this by ten, it would have a susbstantial effect on improving outcomes.