4 ms·

Well, real-time 3d rendering anyway, thanks to the garbage collector and having very little control over it. How complex of a GUI are we talking here? Do you sp

Well, real-time 3d rendering anyway, thanks to the garbage collector and having very little control over it. How complex of a GUI are we talking here? Do you split it into many namespaces? Have long load times when not on a powerful dev machine? Ever tried to deploy said GUI? Do the right thing when exceptions in your program happen, or does it just crash the GUI or spit you out to the repl? Because I'm betting your GUI is not meant to be used by anyone but a couple of people with familiarity with the system, which is fine, but not generally what a GUI is made for.

tanlermin 10y ago
Is there any dynamic language suitable for real time 3d viz?
- SolarNet 10y ago
  Reference counted ones, by carefully controlling when the reference count for objects are released you can make sure that the rendering thread never has to do any of the expensive ones, and instead all (non-trivial) reference releases are shunted off into a different thread for deallocation. In the general case you don't care, and in the specific case you have a fine enough control you can get around the problem of unknown gc-pauses. It's slower - it is a dynamic language afterall - but it's consistent and real-time is more about being consistent.
  - tanlermin 10y ago
    gotcha
simondanisch 10y ago
deployment + load times: obviously things aren't perfect, Julia is at version 0.4, after all ;) There are a lot of low hanging fruits for compile time and deployment, so I'm sure that the situation will look a lot different in a year or two. I'm not sure why Julia itself should make it difficult to "do the right thing" when exceptions occur... Real-time 3D rendering is a big area. Will we have virtual reality with ultra low latency in the next year? Definitely not! Can we have 3D CAD/scientific visualizations which hardly stutters? Definitely! Our library is already very smooth and we didn't even start optimizing yet. That's something that seems to be almost impossible in e.g Python (without just calling C for everything). So while most of these arguments are currently spot on, I do think that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with Julia. And while the maturity is not there yet, you can already be very productive with Julia and build for the future.
- SolarNet 10y ago
  "I'm not sure why Julia itself should make it difficult to "do the right thing" when exceptions occur..." Untyped, sometimes incorrect, exceptions, https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/12485 https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/12485 and related.
  - simondanisch 10y ago
    Yeah and there is already an improvement to that: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/12541 https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/12541. Well, anyways, I think you can easily find a lot of unsatisfactory constructs in any language, especially in young ones ;) If they outweigh the advantages is debatable. So far I've been finding satisfactory workarounds for the most daring issues, so for me the conclusion is indeed very positive.

tanlermin 10y ago

Is there any dynamic language suitable for real time 3d viz?

SolarNet 10y ago
Reference counted ones, by carefully controlling when the reference count for objects are released you can make sure that the rendering thread never has to do any of the expensive ones, and instead all (non-trivial) reference releases are shunted off into a different thread for deallocation. In the general case you don't care, and in the specific case you have a fine enough control you can get around the problem of unknown gc-pauses. It's slower - it is a dynamic language afterall - but it's consistent and real-time is more about being consistent.
- tanlermin 10y ago
  gotcha

simondanisch 10y ago

deployment + load times: obviously things aren't perfect, Julia is at version 0.4, after all ;) There are a lot of low hanging fruits for compile time and deployment, so I'm sure that the situation will look a lot different in a year or two. I'm not sure why Julia itself should make it difficult to "do the right thing" when exceptions occur... Real-time 3D rendering is a big area. Will we have virtual reality with ultra low latency in the next year? Definitely not! Can we have 3D CAD/scientific visualizations which hardly stutters? Definitely! Our library is already very smooth and we didn't even start optimizing yet. That's something that seems to be almost impossible in e.g Python (without just calling C for everything). So while most of these arguments are currently spot on, I do think that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with Julia. And while the maturity is not there yet, you can already be very productive with Julia and build for the future.

SolarNet 10y ago
"I'm not sure why Julia itself should make it difficult to "do the right thing" when exceptions occur..." Untyped, sometimes incorrect, exceptions, https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/12485 https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/12485 and related.
- simondanisch 10y ago
  Yeah and there is already an improvement to that: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/12541 https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/12541. Well, anyways, I think you can easily find a lot of unsatisfactory constructs in any language, especially in young ones ;) If they outweigh the advantages is debatable. So far I've been finding satisfactory workarounds for the most daring issues, so for me the conclusion is indeed very positive.