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10,000 years ago, we were living in a pre-agricultural society (or, perhaps, only somewhat agricultural) Lots of wandering tribes, moving around following the f

10,000 years ago, we were living in a pre-agricultural society (or, perhaps, only somewhat agricultural) Lots of wandering tribes, moving around following the food, hunting with sharp rocks. Hunger and starvation would be common, everything would be scarce, even for "kings" (which were really just tribal leaders) Modern construction wasn't a thing, dwellings were constructed out of sod, animal skins -- at the best, stacked rocks or mud bricks. As a king, you'd still have to do back-breaking, dangerous work to maintain your position and value in society. There's no possibility of going to a homeless shelter to get out of the cold, or sleeping in a well-constructed subway station to shield yourself from the elements. If you were injured, you couldn't just walk into a nearby emergency room with a team of nurses and doctors required to treat you. No soup kitchens or food pantries or SNAP benefits. Even digging around in a city garbage can or restaurant dumpster would yield an easy and delicious feast compared to spending days tracking prey, killing it with a spear, cleaning and skinning it, and cooking it with primitive tools over a fire. I would much rather be homeless today than in any sort of position 10,000 years ago.

neogodless 10y ago
This is an excellent explanation. Thank you! It's amazing how much has changed in 10,000 years. I didn't have a good grasp on the timeline.
sremani 10y ago
10,000 years ago we lived like animals, now, we live like pampered pets. edit: note* this comment should be viewed through the "obesity pandemic" prism.
meric 10y ago
Houses, kilns, pottery, turquoise carvings, tools made from stone and bone, and bone flutes China [1] I'll take living as a potter in 8000 BC China over being homeless in NYC today, thanks. I don't have to be the King. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_millennium_BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_millennium_BC
Pils 10y ago
I know the work of Jared Diamond has some problems, but as a counterpoint: "While the case for the progressivist view seems overwhelming, it's hard to prove. How do you show that the lives of people 10,000 years ago got better when they abandoned hunting and gathering for farming? Until recently, archaeologists had to resort to indirect tests, whose results (surprisingly) failed to support the progressivist view. Here's one example of an indirect test: Are twentieth century hunter-gatherers really worse off than farmers? Scattered throughout the world, several dozen groups of so-called primitive people, like the Kalahari bushmen, continue to support themselves that way. It turns out that these people have plenty of leisure time, sleep a good deal, and work less hard than their farming neighbors. For instance, the average time devoted each week to obtaining food is only 12 to 19 hours for one group of Bushmen, 14 hours or less for the Hadza nomads of Tanzania...While farmers concentrate on high-carbohydrate crops like rice and potatoes, the mix of wild plants and animals in the diets of surviving hunter-gatherers provides more protein and a bettter balance of other nutrients. In one study, the Bushmen's average daily food intake (during a month when food was plentiful) was 2,140 calories and 93 grams of protein, considerably greater than the recommended daily allowance for people of their size. It's almost inconceivable that Bushmen, who eat 75 or so wild plants, could die of starvation the way hundreds of thousands of Irish farmers and their families did during the potato famine of the 1840s."[1] Obviously this isn't representative of all hunter-gatherer societies, but a >20 hour work week, high-protein 2000 calorie diet seems pretty nice. Of course there are some other nice benefits of modernity but saying being homeless in the US have a categorically higher quality of life is a stretch. [1]http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html
- geodel 10y ago
  Thanks, I like this point of view. I guess something like ratio of modern day comforts / modern day stress vs that ratio from past could be a useful measure.
  - deleted 10y ago
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- erroneousfunk 10y ago

neogodless 10y ago

This is an excellent explanation. Thank you! It's amazing how much has changed in 10,000 years. I didn't have a good grasp on the timeline.

sremani 10y ago

10,000 years ago we lived like animals, now, we live like pampered pets. edit: note* this comment should be viewed through the "obesity pandemic" prism.

meric 10y ago

Houses, kilns, pottery, turquoise carvings, tools made from stone and bone, and bone flutes China [1] I'll take living as a potter in 8000 BC China over being homeless in NYC today, thanks. I don't have to be the King. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_millennium_BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_millennium_BC

Pils 10y ago

I know the work of Jared Diamond has some problems, but as a counterpoint: "While the case for the progressivist view seems overwhelming, it's hard to prove. How do you show that the lives of people 10,000 years ago got better when they abandoned hunting and gathering for farming? Until recently, archaeologists had to resort to indirect tests, whose results (surprisingly) failed to support the progressivist view. Here's one example of an indirect test: Are twentieth century hunter-gatherers really worse off than farmers? Scattered throughout the world, several dozen groups of so-called primitive people, like the Kalahari bushmen, continue to support themselves that way. It turns out that these people have plenty of leisure time, sleep a good deal, and work less hard than their farming neighbors. For instance, the average time devoted each week to obtaining food is only 12 to 19 hours for one group of Bushmen, 14 hours or less for the Hadza nomads of Tanzania...While farmers concentrate on high-carbohydrate crops like rice and potatoes, the mix of wild plants and animals in the diets of surviving hunter-gatherers provides more protein and a bettter balance of other nutrients. In one study, the Bushmen's average daily food intake (during a month when food was plentiful) was 2,140 calories and 93 grams of protein, considerably greater than the recommended daily allowance for people of their size. It's almost inconceivable that Bushmen, who eat 75 or so wild plants, could die of starvation the way hundreds of thousands of Irish farmers and their families did during the potato famine of the 1840s."[1] Obviously this isn't representative of all hunter-gatherer societies, but a >20 hour work week, high-protein 2000 calorie diet seems pretty nice. Of course there are some other nice benefits of modernity but saying being homeless in the US have a categorically higher quality of life is a stretch. [1]http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html

geodel 10y ago
Thanks, I like this point of view. I guess something like ratio of modern day comforts / modern day stress vs that ratio from past could be a useful measure.
- deleted 10y ago
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erroneousfunk 10y ago