4 ms·

Not only is it not enough time to extrapolate any real meaning, but to choose a period of 24 days that correspond to a period of diminishing interest in bitcoin

by cb18 10y ago

Not only is it not enough time to extrapolate any real meaning, but to choose a period of 24 days that correspond to a period of diminishing interest in bitcoin and heightened interest in gold because of roiling in the broader markets and then to suggest bitcoin is now more stable than gold is reaching the heights of absurdity. Which is more 'stable'? A commodity on which economies have rested for millennia along with many other established uses, or a commodity less than a decade old that has yet to establish any sustainable use? hmmm..

pyrophane 10y ago
Yea, there are now many crypto currencies that are very similar in design to Bitcoin, but gold has unique properties that cannot truly be copied.
- ptrincr 10y ago
  To be fair, Bitcoin is also unique within the crypto currency world, just like gold is unique within the elements. Nothing will ever change the fact that Bitcoin was first, it has first-mover advantage over other implementations. You could also argue it currently has the most investment, both in monitory terms and development effort.
  - cb18 10y ago
    It's not quite so easy to create iterative improvements on the basic elements of the universe, as it is to iteratively improve crypto currency software. It could be just as easily argued, probably more persuasively, that bitcoin's first mover status is more of a negative to its future prospects than a positive. This owing in large part to the hugely concentrated nature of the bitcoin currency. It's hard to see how a bitcoin economy gets off the ground in any meaningful sense when the distribution is arranged like that. It's unlikely to get any enthusiastic buy in when people doing so understand that the value of their currency would be subject to the whims of just a few major players in the bitcoin game. And any rich person capable of make a large bitcoin buy in would be hesitant to do so because their essentially making themselves relatively poorer than the bitcoin barons in doing so. Figuring out a distribution model that works in concert with a growing digital economy is an open question in crypto currencies.
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    Unix was the first-mover, and should have first-mover advantage over other implementations and clones... Like Linux. Oh wait... but Debian is one of the first Linux distributions, there's no way it'd be displaced by an upstart like Ubuntu. Oh wait... Yahoo and Altavisa were first-movers in search engines. Google was developed years later, they have no chance. Wait a sec... Geocities, Homestead, and Xanga and MySpace were first-movers in web user-generated content and social networking. Facebook has no chance. Wait a sec... Intershop has first-mover advantage in online retailing. There's no chance that Ebay and Amazon will beat them out. Wait a sec... Pebble Watch has first-mover advantage in Smartwatches. There's no way anyone else can move them. Commodore C64 has first-mover advantage in the consumer personal computer market. Ehhh... scratch that. The true first mover was IBM, who branded the PC and created the ATX system and all of those standards. There's no way that IBM will lose their first-mover advantage to Dell and HP. Huh... Atari for first-mover in TV Video Game consoles? Nintendo can't beat them. Erm... I mean Sega can't beat Nintendo. I mean... Sony can't beat the Saturn or N64. I mean... Microsoft's XBox is entering an established field, they can't beat the PS2 or Gamecube.
- vbezhenar 10y ago
  What properties? The only property I could imagine is practical usefulness: gold is used in electronic devices. But it doesn't have much influence on gold's price, because it's very limited use.
  - cb18 10y ago
    It's amusing watching people feign cluelessness and shit talk gold just because they think it will make the value of their bitcoins go up. I have no financial interest in gold, I just try to understand the world through unbiased eyes. Yes gold has a long history of use as a currency for very logical reasons(it's resistance to corrosion and elemental scarcity among them,) it also has a long list of other uses both ancient and modern. It's 'artificial' value as a currency is not in any meaningful way different than the 'artificial' value assigned to any other object of limited supply of which people are desirous be that a concert ticket, a Picasso painting, or a bitcoin. Unlike a concert ticket, a Picasso painting, or a bitcoin, gold can also be used to coat a space helmet, make an electronic circuit, make jewelry, coat an object in gold leaf, etc. To think these other uses play no role in the market value of gold is naive. But even if these other uses didn't exist, and gold was still valued at the price it is now, good luck arguing against the emergent consensus of a market.
    - dragontamer 10y ago
      I think Warren Buffet knows a thing or two about the value of things in the world. > Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or some place, Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head. http://www.aaii.com/files/images/articles/9298-figure-1.jpg http://www.aaii.com/files/images/articles/9298-figure-1.jpg > gold can also be used to coat a space helmet, make an electronic circuit, make jewelry, coat an object in gold leaf, etc. If you're actually interested in a hedge against inflation, go buy Wheat and Oil. When hyperinflation hit the German Economy hard in the 1930s, that's what made tons of money. For as long as humans existed, and for as long as Humans remain on this planet, humans will need to eat. The value of Gold itself? That changes. A thousand years ago, one pound of Gold was worth one pound of salt. http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/currency/essay2.html http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/c...

by cb18 10y ago

pyrophane 10y ago

Yea, there are now many crypto currencies that are very similar in design to Bitcoin, but gold has unique properties that cannot truly be copied.

ptrincr 10y ago
To be fair, Bitcoin is also unique within the crypto currency world, just like gold is unique within the elements. Nothing will ever change the fact that Bitcoin was first, it has first-mover advantage over other implementations. You could also argue it currently has the most investment, both in monitory terms and development effort.
- cb18 10y ago
  It's not quite so easy to create iterative improvements on the basic elements of the universe, as it is to iteratively improve crypto currency software. It could be just as easily argued, probably more persuasively, that bitcoin's first mover status is more of a negative to its future prospects than a positive. This owing in large part to the hugely concentrated nature of the bitcoin currency. It's hard to see how a bitcoin economy gets off the ground in any meaningful sense when the distribution is arranged like that. It's unlikely to get any enthusiastic buy in when people doing so understand that the value of their currency would be subject to the whims of just a few major players in the bitcoin game. And any rich person capable of make a large bitcoin buy in would be hesitant to do so because their essentially making themselves relatively poorer than the bitcoin barons in doing so. Figuring out a distribution model that works in concert with a growing digital economy is an open question in crypto currencies.
- dragontamer 10y ago
  Unix was the first-mover, and should have first-mover advantage over other implementations and clones... Like Linux. Oh wait... but Debian is one of the first Linux distributions, there's no way it'd be displaced by an upstart like Ubuntu. Oh wait... Yahoo and Altavisa were first-movers in search engines. Google was developed years later, they have no chance. Wait a sec... Geocities, Homestead, and Xanga and MySpace were first-movers in web user-generated content and social networking. Facebook has no chance. Wait a sec... Intershop has first-mover advantage in online retailing. There's no chance that Ebay and Amazon will beat them out. Wait a sec... Pebble Watch has first-mover advantage in Smartwatches. There's no way anyone else can move them. Commodore C64 has first-mover advantage in the consumer personal computer market. Ehhh... scratch that. The true first mover was IBM, who branded the PC and created the ATX system and all of those standards. There's no way that IBM will lose their first-mover advantage to Dell and HP. Huh... Atari for first-mover in TV Video Game consoles? Nintendo can't beat them. Erm... I mean Sega can't beat Nintendo. I mean... Sony can't beat the Saturn or N64. I mean... Microsoft's XBox is entering an established field, they can't beat the PS2 or Gamecube.
vbezhenar 10y ago
What properties? The only property I could imagine is practical usefulness: gold is used in electronic devices. But it doesn't have much influence on gold's price, because it's very limited use.
- cb18 10y ago
  It's amusing watching people feign cluelessness and shit talk gold just because they think it will make the value of their bitcoins go up. I have no financial interest in gold, I just try to understand the world through unbiased eyes. Yes gold has a long history of use as a currency for very logical reasons(it's resistance to corrosion and elemental scarcity among them,) it also has a long list of other uses both ancient and modern. It's 'artificial' value as a currency is not in any meaningful way different than the 'artificial' value assigned to any other object of limited supply of which people are desirous be that a concert ticket, a Picasso painting, or a bitcoin. Unlike a concert ticket, a Picasso painting, or a bitcoin, gold can also be used to coat a space helmet, make an electronic circuit, make jewelry, coat an object in gold leaf, etc. To think these other uses play no role in the market value of gold is naive. But even if these other uses didn't exist, and gold was still valued at the price it is now, good luck arguing against the emergent consensus of a market.
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    I think Warren Buffet knows a thing or two about the value of things in the world. > Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or some place, Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head. http://www.aaii.com/files/images/articles/9298-figure-1.jpg http://www.aaii.com/files/images/articles/9298-figure-1.jpg > gold can also be used to coat a space helmet, make an electronic circuit, make jewelry, coat an object in gold leaf, etc. If you're actually interested in a hedge against inflation, go buy Wheat and Oil. When hyperinflation hit the German Economy hard in the 1930s, that's what made tons of money. For as long as humans existed, and for as long as Humans remain on this planet, humans will need to eat. The value of Gold itself? That changes. A thousand years ago, one pound of Gold was worth one pound of salt. http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/currency/essay2.html http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/c...