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This was also true in the not quite as oppressive (but still oppressive by Western standards) Eastern European dictatorships pre-1989. It's from a combination o

This was also true in the not quite as oppressive (but still oppressive by Western standards) Eastern European dictatorships pre-1989. It's from a combination of reasons -- fear that graffiti/litter would get you in trouble and the fact that in order to approach full employment, many more people were involved in cleaning than under capitalism.

emodendroket 11y ago
Higher employment achieved by keeping public services at a higher standard doesn't sound like such a horrible idea to borrow from those regimes.
- jonknee 11y ago
  It's not affordable unless you're an oppressive totalitarian regime.
  - emodendroket 11y ago
    [Citation needed]
    - jonknee 11y ago
      We're already running huge deficits... No citation is needed to understand that hiring a massive number of people to pick up litter is unaffordable.
      - forgottenpass 11y ago
        You say that like we're not running huge deficits by design, on purpose, and with the approval of those most empowered to effect change.
      - Mikeb85 11y ago
        > We're already running huge deficits... In large part due to massive governmental inefficiencies, massive defence spending, and because the richest individuals and corporations hardly pay any tax on their (real) earnings...
  - crdoconnor 11y ago
    Isn't it weird how it's not affordable to pay for a new public service but as soon that job is being done you're told not to get too attached because a robot will be along promptly to replace you?
- tragomaskhalos 11y ago
  This is very true; some years ago a friend who works for the Foreign Office was posted to Tunisia, and we went to visit her there. She pointed out a guy at a traffic intersection in a splendid uniform with white gloves, waving on and halting the traffic, basically doing the job of a set of traffic lights. This would have been derided in Europe or the US, and yet here was a guy with a purpose to his life rather than sitting around unemployed. Even the uniform seemed designed to imbue the job with kudos.
rawTruthHurts 11y ago
> in order to approach full employment Maybe Cameron could get some ideas from good ol' Kim
pound 11y ago
Or may be some people don't litter not because of fear of trouble but because they know how to behave? Also about more cleaning: there is a proverb that sounds something like "It's clean not where a lot of cleaning has place but where people are not littering"

emodendroket 11y ago

Higher employment achieved by keeping public services at a higher standard doesn't sound like such a horrible idea to borrow from those regimes.

jonknee 11y ago
It's not affordable unless you're an oppressive totalitarian regime.
- emodendroket 11y ago
  [Citation needed]
  - jonknee 11y ago
    We're already running huge deficits... No citation is needed to understand that hiring a massive number of people to pick up litter is unaffordable.
    - forgottenpass 11y ago
      You say that like we're not running huge deficits by design, on purpose, and with the approval of those most empowered to effect change.
    - Mikeb85 11y ago
      > We're already running huge deficits... In large part due to massive governmental inefficiencies, massive defence spending, and because the richest individuals and corporations hardly pay any tax on their (real) earnings...
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  Isn't it weird how it's not affordable to pay for a new public service but as soon that job is being done you're told not to get too attached because a robot will be along promptly to replace you?
tragomaskhalos 11y ago
This is very true; some years ago a friend who works for the Foreign Office was posted to Tunisia, and we went to visit her there. She pointed out a guy at a traffic intersection in a splendid uniform with white gloves, waving on and halting the traffic, basically doing the job of a set of traffic lights. This would have been derided in Europe or the US, and yet here was a guy with a purpose to his life rather than sitting around unemployed. Even the uniform seemed designed to imbue the job with kudos.

rawTruthHurts 11y ago

> in order to approach full employment Maybe Cameron could get some ideas from good ol' Kim

pound 11y ago

Or may be some people don't litter not because of fear of trouble but because they know how to behave? Also about more cleaning: there is a proverb that sounds something like "It's clean not where a lot of cleaning has place but where people are not littering"