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As a non-American (I'm British, arguably), the whole American flag saluting/pledge of allegiance/national anthem thing has always seemed excessively patriotic.
by TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
As a non-American (I'm British, arguably), the whole American flag saluting/pledge of allegiance/national anthem thing has always seemed excessively patriotic. I doubt many people in the UK could remember the national anthem beyond the first verse, and if required to make a pledge of allegiance, I imagine many would refuse.
But that's probably because it's a less important identity to people in the UK. It's not a country of immigrants, there is more than just national identity to hold people together.
- gerardnll 11y agoTotally agree, and I'm from Spain.
- Kurtz79 11y agoNot British, but I guess the different national identities (English, Scottish, Welsh...) in the Kingdom play a major role, also considering the fact that one of them has had a fairly dominant role along its history. Would a Scotsman or Northern Irishman identifies himself as such to a foreigner, rather than British ?
- CapitalistCartr 11y agoThe non-English Brits say that any time a Scottish, Welsh, or Irish person does something good, the press describes them as British; something bad, the press call out their nationality; but that the press do the reverse for the English.
- kaybe 11y agoThe travelling Scots I meet usually do. It seems very important to them.
- doc_holliday 11y agoBeing Scottish isn't important to me on a national identy level. However saying you are Scottish when abroad as opposed to British tends to result in a much warmer reception.
- technothrasher 11y agoI've found in my travels within the UK as an American, that the reverse is also true. I tend to get a much warmer reception in Scotland than anywhere else. (Except Shetland. I got the feeling they don't really like outsiders in Shetland.)
- arethuza 11y agoPeople who self identify as British rather than English, Scots etc. actually seem to be in the minority: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24302914 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24302914 "What emerges from the census results is that, while a majority of people in England, Scotland and Wales pick English (60%), Scottish (62%) or Welsh (58%) as their sole identity, younger and more diverse communities show higher proportions selecting a British identity." Edit: I'm a Scot - seems natural for people to describe themselves as English, Welsh etc. and relatively few people I've known got it confused with Ireland (apart from the US VCs who invested in our UK-based startup and thought we were in Ireland and we actually worried that if we corrected them they might not invest... this was ~20 years ago).
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoI use the label "British" rather reluctantly. I've spent 3/4 of my life in England and 1/4 in Scotland, so it seems like an accurate descriptor, but I'd rather claim to be Scottish if I can claim to be anything. "Britain" is a concept linked inextricably to the UK's imperial history, for me.
- doc_holliday 11y agoAs a Scot, it is sometimes much easier to identify as being Scottish in many parts of the world. People tend to be slightly warmer to you when they find out you are from Scotland and not just Britain. I guess years of colonialism still makes being British slightly tarred. For example visiting America, people are interested enough if you are from the UK but if you mention specifically Scotland they instantly start getting much more excited.
- 1_player 11y agoOr the cringey USA! chants. In most of the world chanting your country name is reserved to far right lunatics.
- CapitalistCartr 11y agoCompared to the rest of the modern World, we are "far-right". As a libertarian, I'd be politically extreme in any country in Europe. Even the USA Democrats are right of center compared to much of Europe. Besides, we like chanting it; its child-like fun.
- Kurtz79 11y ago"Far right", at least nowadays, in Europe has a very definite meaning that has little to do with economics (in that regard, "Far Right" parties tend to be the opposite than libertarian), but rather with their stance on immigration, religious, and social issues.
- CapitalistCartr 11y agoYes, here in the USA, too, Right isn't an economic position. Hence the rise of Donald Mussolini Trump.
- zelos 11y agoAnd English football fans: "Eng-err-land", "Two world wars and one world cup" etc.
- arprocter 11y agoInternationally perhaps, but in the European leagues the fans invent all sorts of comical/ribald chants. Rare to hear US sport fans come up with anything other than booing, 'D fence', 'ref you suck' or yelling a player's name
- glaberficken 11y agoWell, there's sporting events... like the World Cup or European Championships, there every national shouts their own country's name without awkward duality feelings (even Germans, I just checked with one to be sure =)
- brusch64 11y agoSame here in Austria
- majewsky 11y agoAgreed. Though I'm from Germany, a country that is historically anxious about national pride. And that includes myself. I get why people want to feel proud of their country, but I don't need this. I view a state as a provider of infrastructure, social security, and societal stability. Therefore I'm not particularly attached to the concrete state I'm living in, as long as it provides these amenities to me.
- actionwords 11y agodaily reminder that your constitution was written by conquerors and your current state is actively engaged in keeping you nationally impotent.
- fauigerzigerk 11y ago>there is more than just national identity to hold people together. What do you mean by that?
- Sharlin 11y agoShared history, culture, norms?
- soundwave106 11y agoThe British do have moments of patriotism (I've certainly heard it in events ranging from football events to the Last Night of the Proms). But yeah, American patriotism has too much of the more ridiculous nationalistic / jingoistic side of things. I can't think of a Western country where something as ridiculous as, say, not wearing a pin with an American flag on it, or supposedly failing to put your hand over your heart during the Presidential anthem, would become a major political attack angle.
- bzbarsky 11y agoI doubt many people in the US could remember (or ever even knew of the existence of) the national anthem beyond the first verse either. The first verse is the only part commonly sung, in my experience.
- takno 11y agoThe British national anthem is a complex affair. The final god save the queen verse is well known internationally, but the initial Sailing By and the shipping forecast in the middle are often missed completely