5 ms·

There may be some reverse causation--in a country where devastating and chronic illness frequently bankrupts people, it's not too surprising that at least this

by medymed 11y ago

There may be some reverse causation--in a country where devastating and chronic illness frequently bankrupts people, it's not too surprising that at least this subset of poor people would be living quite a bit shorter than the average citizen.

minikites 11y ago
Status quo bias is a hell of a thing. Imagine if we had firefighter insurance and the most common cause of bankruptcy was their home burning down. That's pretty much where we are with medicine and it's often justified by victim blaming (They shoudn't have eaten that! They should have exercised more!).
- hodwik 11y ago
  You're rhetorically associating systemic injustice against black people with critiquing fat people. You understand that right? The phrase is from the book Blaming the Victim, about the legacy of slavery. I'd avoid using that tactic out in the world.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    That's a reach. I think the phrase "victim blaming" is mainstream enough to have zero racial connotations (I never knew there was one until I read your claim). Often comes up in discussions of rape/sexual assault where race is not a factor at all.
    - hodwik 11y ago
      Okay, then he's comparing fat people with rape victims. Is that better?
jdietrich 11y ago
The disparity is still significant in countries with state-funded healthcare. http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publication_file/inequalities-in-life-expectancy-kings-fund-aug15.pdf http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publi...
- arethuza 11y ago
  Glasgow is notorious when it comes to poor life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect "Equally deprived areas of the UK such as Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester have higher life expectancies, and the wealthiest ten percent of the Glasgow population have a lower life expectancy than the same group in other cities"
- VLM 11y ago
  However the socioeconomic class of the neighborhood as per the linked graphs depend on employment status not hospital bills, and thats constant across US, UK, etc. For example. Take a senior airline captain. Toward the end of their career they're almost as well paid as us IT people, maybe 90th percentile. That relies on a 1st class med cert, updated every six months. The day after you fail, you're unemployed (more or less). Suddenly his income, and inevitably his neighborhoods social class, starts dropping. Perhaps he works in an office as a clerk. Optimistically maybe 50% percentile income. But he didn't fail that med cert for fun, its because of developing heart disease. Now you can pretend to be surprised a 50th percentile file clerk has a lower life expectancy (due to his heart disease) than a 90th percentile airline captain. But its not an elaborate conspiracy. Its just that higher income jobs assume health. Its even worse, in that most employers have low tolerance for employee illness, but even lower tolerance for employee family member illness. A mother who's kid has some terrible disease is much more likely to get poorer and downwardly mobile, than the opposite. Shouldda started that startup, but dad was dying of cancer at that time, and kids of cancer victims tend to become cancer victims, so "mysteriously" lower income people seem to be at higher risk of cancer. Not to forget the destructive effects of mental illness on employability in stereotypical higher income jobs.

by medymed 11y ago

minikites 11y ago

Status quo bias is a hell of a thing. Imagine if we had firefighter insurance and the most common cause of bankruptcy was their home burning down. That's pretty much where we are with medicine and it's often justified by victim blaming (They shoudn't have eaten that! They should have exercised more!).

hodwik 11y ago
You're rhetorically associating systemic injustice against black people with critiquing fat people. You understand that right? The phrase is from the book Blaming the Victim, about the legacy of slavery. I'd avoid using that tactic out in the world.
- ams6110 11y ago
  That's a reach. I think the phrase "victim blaming" is mainstream enough to have zero racial connotations (I never knew there was one until I read your claim). Often comes up in discussions of rape/sexual assault where race is not a factor at all.
  - hodwik 11y ago
    Okay, then he's comparing fat people with rape victims. Is that better?

jdietrich 11y ago

The disparity is still significant in countries with state-funded healthcare. http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publication_file/inequalities-in-life-expectancy-kings-fund-aug15.pdf http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publi...

arethuza 11y ago
Glasgow is notorious when it comes to poor life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect "Equally deprived areas of the UK such as Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester have higher life expectancies, and the wealthiest ten percent of the Glasgow population have a lower life expectancy than the same group in other cities"
VLM 11y ago
However the socioeconomic class of the neighborhood as per the linked graphs depend on employment status not hospital bills, and thats constant across US, UK, etc. For example. Take a senior airline captain. Toward the end of their career they're almost as well paid as us IT people, maybe 90th percentile. That relies on a 1st class med cert, updated every six months. The day after you fail, you're unemployed (more or less). Suddenly his income, and inevitably his neighborhoods social class, starts dropping. Perhaps he works in an office as a clerk. Optimistically maybe 50% percentile income. But he didn't fail that med cert for fun, its because of developing heart disease. Now you can pretend to be surprised a 50th percentile file clerk has a lower life expectancy (due to his heart disease) than a 90th percentile airline captain. But its not an elaborate conspiracy. Its just that higher income jobs assume health. Its even worse, in that most employers have low tolerance for employee illness, but even lower tolerance for employee family member illness. A mother who's kid has some terrible disease is much more likely to get poorer and downwardly mobile, than the opposite. Shouldda started that startup, but dad was dying of cancer at that time, and kids of cancer victims tend to become cancer victims, so "mysteriously" lower income people seem to be at higher risk of cancer. Not to forget the destructive effects of mental illness on employability in stereotypical higher income jobs.