4 ms·

Mining on Earth leads to conflicts on Earth, so what's the difference? Additionally, the '67 Outer Space Treaty was specifically written with open-ended provis

Mining on Earth leads to conflicts on Earth, so what's the difference? Additionally, the '67 Outer Space Treaty was specifically written with open-ended provisions to allow for the commercial exploitation of space - at the time, they quite honestly thought that Hilton and Pan Am (yes, 2001 did it) would be operating in space within decades. They even thought so as far back as '58, before man had even been to space. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120712-where-is-hiltons-lunar-hotel http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120712-where-is-hiltons-lu...

xyzzy123 11y ago
What I find interesting about it is new questions of sovereignty versus co-operation among the nations on earth. None of the space treaties were written with the anticipation of actual profits in mind. You could make the same argument about Antarctica, but [actually I don't have a good argument why we haven't exploited the resources there and would be interested to hear one. Just political suicide? Too expensive?] When it's feasible to make money space mining absolutely all of these things will be rewritten, probably with a heavy dose of realpolitik.
- mirimir 11y ago
  Two reasons come to mind: Penguins are cute. We ought to leave somewhere untouched, so let's pick the poles, because they're too bloody cold, and all. /s
  - xyzzy123 11y ago
    Maybe it's just too hard to navigate public opinion and regulation for things involving multiple governments? That would not bode well for space mining... Also yes if there were space penguins: no chance
    - clem 11y ago
      Just picturing the uproar over a space polar bear clinging to a tiny asteroid.
- jcfrei 11y ago
  Whether or not Antarctica gets exploited (at the very least by some non-democratic countries) depends probably on commodity prices. And most of them are pretty low right now.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Antarctia is protected because it's the one area of earth that hasn't been irrevocably fucked up by human activity - yet. It's quite likely that when the Antarctic treaty completely expires in '48 we'll see a free-for-all - just as we are right now with UNCLOS (which the US never signed) and deep sea mining - although that's all being kept so quiet and out of the public eye it's not funny.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Antarctica isn't exactly "protected" the treaty is the outcome of countries that didn't want to give up their claims to Antarctica but also weren't in a position or had the slightest will to actually develop their claims. The treaty doesn't really protect Antarctica from anything other than nuclear tests, in the future if countries want to actually develop claims it can and will be revisited. That said there isn't much interest in this atm mostly because we do not have the technology and we aren't that desperate heck even if the largest oil field in the would would've been found there no one atm would try to develop it as it would most likely be financially non-viable but nothing would really stop anyone from doing so. Outerspace on the other hand defines the universe as the heritage of all mankind where no one can claim any stake, which will shortly be changed probably to something along the side of what was used to be used in the US during expansion, where claims would be made by private individuals and corporations rather than countries.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
wapapaloobop 11y ago
>Mining on Earth leads to conflicts on Earth, so what's the difference? The difference is that conspiracy theorists and others will fear that an asteroid would be used to destroy a major city. But we've got to learn how to deflect asteroids anyhow, in order to save the Earth. So some international body formed out of NASA should start crashing them into the Moon, or into parking orbit around the Moon. We can then offer mining rights to any company which is simply able to get up there. Presto. There'll be a lunar base within decades!
- lucaspiller 11y ago
  > We can then offer mining rights Who is "we" in this case?
  - aluhut 11y ago
    "We the people" of course. Yeah there will be some nice absurd law fights before the wars. I wonder if generally law applies to earth only.
    - lmm 11y ago
      Law applies wherever people are willing to enforce it.
  - sangnoir 11y ago
    The country with the biggest space-guns / asteroid-throwers
- kjs3 11y ago
  Interesting idea, but I'm not sure lunar orbits would be stable, and we're all sitting at the bottom of the next closest (and much bigger) gravity well. Also See: Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", which features space colonists seeking to break away from Earth dropping rocks on us to persuade us to let them go.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>quite honestly thought that Hilton and Pan Am (yes, 2001 did it) would be operating in space within decades. It was a rational assumption. There was good data suggesting we could expect a significant drop in launch cost. Then the two nations who could do this decided instead to spend all their money on nuclear weapons and conventional military forces as well as proxy conflicts which starved whatever civilian rocket innovations could have or should have happened in the 70s and 80s. They both had classic designs by then that worked well enough and competing on cost per lbs didn't matter to them as it wasn't incentivized by anyone.

xyzzy123 11y ago

What I find interesting about it is new questions of sovereignty versus co-operation among the nations on earth. None of the space treaties were written with the anticipation of actual profits in mind. You could make the same argument about Antarctica, but [actually I don't have a good argument why we haven't exploited the resources there and would be interested to hear one. Just political suicide? Too expensive?] When it's feasible to make money space mining absolutely all of these things will be rewritten, probably with a heavy dose of realpolitik.

mirimir 11y ago
Two reasons come to mind: Penguins are cute. We ought to leave somewhere untouched, so let's pick the poles, because they're too bloody cold, and all. /s
- xyzzy123 11y ago
  Maybe it's just too hard to navigate public opinion and regulation for things involving multiple governments? That would not bode well for space mining... Also yes if there were space penguins: no chance
  - clem 11y ago
    Just picturing the uproar over a space polar bear clinging to a tiny asteroid.
jcfrei 11y ago
Whether or not Antarctica gets exploited (at the very least by some non-democratic countries) depends probably on commodity prices. And most of them are pretty low right now.
madaxe_again 11y ago
Antarctia is protected because it's the one area of earth that hasn't been irrevocably fucked up by human activity - yet. It's quite likely that when the Antarctic treaty completely expires in '48 we'll see a free-for-all - just as we are right now with UNCLOS (which the US never signed) and deep sea mining - although that's all being kept so quiet and out of the public eye it's not funny.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  Antarctica isn't exactly "protected" the treaty is the outcome of countries that didn't want to give up their claims to Antarctica but also weren't in a position or had the slightest will to actually develop their claims. The treaty doesn't really protect Antarctica from anything other than nuclear tests, in the future if countries want to actually develop claims it can and will be revisited. That said there isn't much interest in this atm mostly because we do not have the technology and we aren't that desperate heck even if the largest oil field in the would would've been found there no one atm would try to develop it as it would most likely be financially non-viable but nothing would really stop anyone from doing so. Outerspace on the other hand defines the universe as the heritage of all mankind where no one can claim any stake, which will shortly be changed probably to something along the side of what was used to be used in the US during expansion, where claims would be made by private individuals and corporations rather than countries.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

wapapaloobop 11y ago

>Mining on Earth leads to conflicts on Earth, so what's the difference? The difference is that conspiracy theorists and others will fear that an asteroid would be used to destroy a major city. But we've got to learn how to deflect asteroids anyhow, in order to save the Earth. So some international body formed out of NASA should start crashing them into the Moon, or into parking orbit around the Moon. We can then offer mining rights to any company which is simply able to get up there. Presto. There'll be a lunar base within decades!

lucaspiller 11y ago
> We can then offer mining rights Who is "we" in this case?
- aluhut 11y ago
  "We the people" of course. Yeah there will be some nice absurd law fights before the wars. I wonder if generally law applies to earth only.
  - lmm 11y ago
    Law applies wherever people are willing to enforce it.
- sangnoir 11y ago
  The country with the biggest space-guns / asteroid-throwers
kjs3 11y ago
Interesting idea, but I'm not sure lunar orbits would be stable, and we're all sitting at the bottom of the next closest (and much bigger) gravity well. Also See: Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", which features space colonists seeking to break away from Earth dropping rocks on us to persuade us to let them go.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

>quite honestly thought that Hilton and Pan Am (yes, 2001 did it) would be operating in space within decades. It was a rational assumption. There was good data suggesting we could expect a significant drop in launch cost. Then the two nations who could do this decided instead to spend all their money on nuclear weapons and conventional military forces as well as proxy conflicts which starved whatever civilian rocket innovations could have or should have happened in the 70s and 80s. They both had classic designs by then that worked well enough and competing on cost per lbs didn't matter to them as it wasn't incentivized by anyone.