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Nobody is being forced to any attention to their pronouncements. The only reason they are of any relevance is that a lot of people freely choose to use services

Nobody is being forced to any attention to their pronouncements. The only reason they are of any relevance is that a lot of people freely choose to use services and software that incorporate them.

userbinator 11y ago
The concern is primarily because Google has, to many people, become "the Internet itself" --- it is in a position of immense power to control what the majority of the Internet-using population sees. This isn't quite the same situation as some random white/blacklisting site's opinion.
- oolongCat 11y ago
  Precisely!
idiot99 11y ago
Yes, they are. In Chrome and firefox, if google decides your website isn't up to scratch for some random reason, then visitors will see a big scary red warning and be turned away. Yes, in theory you could get people to use a browser that doesn't incorporate Google censorship, but that's becoming a big ask. If your website does become blacklisted by Google, good luck finding out why. They won't tell you, and will instead make you click on a "request review" button a million times while you change things to see if it floats their boat. Isn't it slightly worrying to have the entity who decides if websites are "safe" or not, also have a monopoly on online advertising? What's to stop them blacklisting sites that use competitors advertising? They could claim that it benefits the users some how, whilst squashing any hint of competition. Google has become the absolute gatekeeper, and (To me at least) it's a very very sad state of affairs. The www used to be free and open.
- d_theorist 11y ago
  Anybody who doesn't like the way Google is publishing this information through its browser is free to choose to use another one. Or to turn it off. There is naturally a tradeoff between the value of this information for avoiding dangerous sites, and the risk that Google might be abusing the power that goes with its role in publishing it. At the moment users are mostly deciding that the risk is worth it. If Google becomes obviously abusive then users will have to re-assess that equation. But it's the users' decision to make; not ours.
  - anon1385 11y ago
    >At the moment users are mostly deciding that the risk is worth it. Users aren't making a conscious decision. Browser vendors are making the decision for them. Most people don't change the default settings, especially something that claims to make your browsing "safer".
    - ceejayoz 11y ago
      > Most people don't change the default settings... We're talking about Chrome, a browser that comes as the default setting on zero major operating systems.
      - bob17 11y ago
        Android, it now has the safe browsing API built into Play services. https://security.googleblog.com/2015/12/protecting-hundreds-of-millions-more.html https://security.googleblog.com/2015/12/protecting-hundreds-... I wonder if newer versions of SamsungBrowser use it.
      - anon1385 11y ago
        >We're talking about Chrome No we aren't. We are talking about the Google Safe Browsing service. They are different things. One is a web browser, the other is a blacklist that any software can use. It's used by Firefox, Chrome and Safari. Together those make up a majority of browsers.
partiallypro 11y ago
> Nobody is being forced to any attention to their pronouncements Not necessarily true, your website being flagged by Google can get you blocked on multiple browsers. That's enough to destroy your traffic. Granted, I'd say 99% of these are legit flags from JS injections, etc. Sure, you could use a browser that doesn't do this...but, you won't.

Nobody is being forced to any attention to their pronouncements. The only reason they are of any relevance is that a lot of people freely choose to use services and software that incorporate them.

userbinator 11y ago

The concern is primarily because Google has, to many people, become "the Internet itself" --- it is in a position of immense power to control what the majority of the Internet-using population sees. This isn't quite the same situation as some random white/blacklisting site's opinion.

oolongCat 11y ago
Precisely!

idiot99 11y ago

Yes, they are. In Chrome and firefox, if google decides your website isn't up to scratch for some random reason, then visitors will see a big scary red warning and be turned away. Yes, in theory you could get people to use a browser that doesn't incorporate Google censorship, but that's becoming a big ask. If your website does become blacklisted by Google, good luck finding out why. They won't tell you, and will instead make you click on a "request review" button a million times while you change things to see if it floats their boat. Isn't it slightly worrying to have the entity who decides if websites are "safe" or not, also have a monopoly on online advertising? What's to stop them blacklisting sites that use competitors advertising? They could claim that it benefits the users some how, whilst squashing any hint of competition. Google has become the absolute gatekeeper, and (To me at least) it's a very very sad state of affairs. The www used to be free and open.

d_theorist 11y ago
Anybody who doesn't like the way Google is publishing this information through its browser is free to choose to use another one. Or to turn it off. There is naturally a tradeoff between the value of this information for avoiding dangerous sites, and the risk that Google might be abusing the power that goes with its role in publishing it. At the moment users are mostly deciding that the risk is worth it. If Google becomes obviously abusive then users will have to re-assess that equation. But it's the users' decision to make; not ours.
- anon1385 11y ago
  >At the moment users are mostly deciding that the risk is worth it. Users aren't making a conscious decision. Browser vendors are making the decision for them. Most people don't change the default settings, especially something that claims to make your browsing "safer".
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    > Most people don't change the default settings... We're talking about Chrome, a browser that comes as the default setting on zero major operating systems.
    - bob17 11y ago
      Android, it now has the safe browsing API built into Play services. https://security.googleblog.com/2015/12/protecting-hundreds-of-millions-more.html https://security.googleblog.com/2015/12/protecting-hundreds-... I wonder if newer versions of SamsungBrowser use it.
    - anon1385 11y ago
      >We're talking about Chrome No we aren't. We are talking about the Google Safe Browsing service. They are different things. One is a web browser, the other is a blacklist that any software can use. It's used by Firefox, Chrome and Safari. Together those make up a majority of browsers.

partiallypro 11y ago

> Nobody is being forced to any attention to their pronouncements Not necessarily true, your website being flagged by Google can get you blocked on multiple browsers. That's enough to destroy your traffic. Granted, I'd say 99% of these are legit flags from JS injections, etc. Sure, you could use a browser that doesn't do this...but, you won't.