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I'm not sure I believe this. Is this due to subsidies on solar? Or taxes on coal? I'm not sure this headline is possible at face value.

Kliment 11y ago
Neither - just production-level economies of scale. Operating costs of solar are way below that of coal, and setup and manufacturing costs have dropped significantly with volume. Note the comparison is for new installations - coal power is only cheap now because the massive construction expenses were sunk long ago. Constructing a coal plant is a huge expense, particularly as it has to be centralized because it makes no sense below a certain size. Whereas with solar you can have very small installations closer to point of use that are still financially sensible. You win on capex, you win on operating costs, and you win on transmission losses. Capital expense used to be much much higher a decade ago for solar, and emission standards for coal plants were not rigorously enforced for old installations, making coal appear cheaper. Of course, if you count the expenses related to the pollution and health damage done by coal plants, coal was always more expensive.
starving_coder 11y ago
From the article: “Of course there are challenges of 24/7 power. We accept all of that – but we have been able to come up with a solar-based long term vision that is not subsidy based.” Headline is not possible at face value except that it is.
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  As best I can tell India's government is currently spending billions of dollars on solar. Maybe it will some day not be subsidy based. But as best I can tell it currently is. In fact the government appears to be spending one hundred billion dollars on solar in the next six years. By 2022. Furthermore, "The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy provides 70 percent subsidy on the installation cost of a solar photovoltaic power plant in North-East states and 30 percentage subsidy on other regions." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_India I'm all for renewable energy. Solar is great. At this point I don't see how the headline isn't clickbait bullshit.
  - TheLogothete 11y ago
    Why is this guy getting downvoted? There are multiple people saying "sounds too good to be true, but it isn't. Solar is great because I said so!". This guy provides evidence to support that it is not true and gets downvoted? Wut? For the umptieth time HN hears only what it wants to hear.
    - forgetsusername 11y ago
      Indeed. The HN hive mind is strong. Post oatmeal commentary about favorite subjects and receive up votes.
  - tim333 11y ago
    The headline's accurate in that India energy minister said "solar is now cheaper than coal." Doesn't necessarily mean solar is actually cheaper than coal.
    - TheLogothete 11y ago
      He said that? Can you please provide the quote?
      - tim333 11y ago
        Ok - it seems he tweeted rather than said it: >“Through transparent auctions with a ready provision of land, transmission and the like, solar tariffs have come down below thermal power cost,” Goyal said in a tweet. http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/22/solar-power-now-cheaper-than-coal-in-india-says-energy-minister/ http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/22/solar-power-now-cheaper-...
  - Osiris30 11y ago
    There are very little subsidies for Wind and Solar in India. MNRCE subsidies are for specific projects. The vast majority are tenders or auctions. Developers bid a tarrif whatever they feel their Return on Assets can bear. See here for more https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520789
venomsnake 11y ago
The developing world is in somewhat unique position. They can skip generations of technology - they can start from latest and greatest - the smart choice when you have tabula rasa.. Also there labor cost, and the cost (and time) of navigating the political system to get permits are lower. So a big project can be made a lot cheaper and faster from first shovel to producing electricity.
rathish_g 11y ago
It's the lowest bid that the government got for generating power from third party vendors.

Kliment 11y ago

Neither - just production-level economies of scale. Operating costs of solar are way below that of coal, and setup and manufacturing costs have dropped significantly with volume. Note the comparison is for new installations - coal power is only cheap now because the massive construction expenses were sunk long ago. Constructing a coal plant is a huge expense, particularly as it has to be centralized because it makes no sense below a certain size. Whereas with solar you can have very small installations closer to point of use that are still financially sensible. You win on capex, you win on operating costs, and you win on transmission losses. Capital expense used to be much much higher a decade ago for solar, and emission standards for coal plants were not rigorously enforced for old installations, making coal appear cheaper. Of course, if you count the expenses related to the pollution and health damage done by coal plants, coal was always more expensive.

starving_coder 11y ago

From the article: “Of course there are challenges of 24/7 power. We accept all of that – but we have been able to come up with a solar-based long term vision that is not subsidy based.” Headline is not possible at face value except that it is.

forrestthewoods 11y ago
As best I can tell India's government is currently spending billions of dollars on solar. Maybe it will some day not be subsidy based. But as best I can tell it currently is. In fact the government appears to be spending one hundred billion dollars on solar in the next six years. By 2022. Furthermore, "The Ministry of New and Renewable Energy provides 70 percent subsidy on the installation cost of a solar photovoltaic power plant in North-East states and 30 percentage subsidy on other regions." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_India I'm all for renewable energy. Solar is great. At this point I don't see how the headline isn't clickbait bullshit.
- TheLogothete 11y ago
  Why is this guy getting downvoted? There are multiple people saying "sounds too good to be true, but it isn't. Solar is great because I said so!". This guy provides evidence to support that it is not true and gets downvoted? Wut? For the umptieth time HN hears only what it wants to hear.
  - forgetsusername 11y ago
    Indeed. The HN hive mind is strong. Post oatmeal commentary about favorite subjects and receive up votes.
- tim333 11y ago
  The headline's accurate in that India energy minister said "solar is now cheaper than coal." Doesn't necessarily mean solar is actually cheaper than coal.
  - TheLogothete 11y ago
    He said that? Can you please provide the quote?
    - tim333 11y ago
      Ok - it seems he tweeted rather than said it: >“Through transparent auctions with a ready provision of land, transmission and the like, solar tariffs have come down below thermal power cost,” Goyal said in a tweet. http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/22/solar-power-now-cheaper-than-coal-in-india-says-energy-minister/ http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/22/solar-power-now-cheaper-...
- Osiris30 11y ago
  There are very little subsidies for Wind and Solar in India. MNRCE subsidies are for specific projects. The vast majority are tenders or auctions. Developers bid a tarrif whatever they feel their Return on Assets can bear. See here for more https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520789

venomsnake 11y ago

The developing world is in somewhat unique position. They can skip generations of technology - they can start from latest and greatest - the smart choice when you have tabula rasa.. Also there labor cost, and the cost (and time) of navigating the political system to get permits are lower. So a big project can be made a lot cheaper and faster from first shovel to producing electricity.

rathish_g 11y ago

It's the lowest bid that the government got for generating power from third party vendors.