6 ms·

We can real time track the location of every phone in every pocket but tracking a vehicle is still a rare luxery. Why has no startup tackled this?

by brador 11y ago

theseatoms 11y ago
https://www.thetrackr.com/ https://www.thetrackr.com/
- wyager 11y ago
  Car tracking systems should use vehicle power so they last as long as the car does without charging or maintenance.
  - Retric 11y ago
    That gets into cost vs benefit. Arguably, these things are best as part of the standard package from the manufacturer, but being able to remotely track everyone is going to throw up lot's of red flags for people. Also, it's easy to drive a car into a truck with a Faraday cage making these things almost useless if they did become common.
    - jessriedel 11y ago
      It substantially raises the costs and risks of theft.
    - seanp2k2 11y ago
      Geek utopia version: tech-savvy crims install a hidden faraday cage into the back of a nondescript vehicle transportation semi trailer. After observing the target for days, they cease the perfect opportunity to house the car onto 4 wheel dollies, load it into the trailer, and drive off with their ill-gotten booty, laughing maniacally. The poor owner is none the wiser until coming out from a fancy dinner with his trophy wife to find his treasured luxury vehicle missing. Real life: dude in a hoodie presses a fake gun into the back of the owner, instructs him to not turn around or call the cops, takes his phone, wallet, and keys, drives off in car with real key. Has a buyer lined up already. Drives car to location and it's promptly put inside a shipping container, which blocks the cell / gps signals by virtue of being made out of steel.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retric 11y ago
        In your second example the shipping container is a Fairday cage.
  - toomanybeersies 11y ago
    What if the thieves remove the battery because they're parting out the car?
starquake 11y ago
Because you can already buy them. They are called GPS trackers. Try a Google search for "Car GPS Tracker".
- brador 11y ago
  Car GPS trackers are expensive, hard to install, poorly designed and just plain bad. It can't be hard to do it better. And if done right there's a massive market. You could get in with insurance companies to cover costs like NEST did with the energy companies. The Business model writes itself.
  - jotux 11y ago
    After some very brief googling it seems like there are many decent choices. Here's one: http://www.awaregps.com/ http://www.awaregps.com/
    - jessriedel 11y ago
      $20 per month!?!
      - wlesieutre 11y ago
        If you're in a making mood, you could DIY something with a Particle Electron 3G for $3/month. 1MB of data ought to be enough for typical idling, and an extra $0.99/MB is pocket change if you need more data to recover the car once it's stolen. No GPS built in, so you could either add a GPS module or hope that cellular/wifi triangulation is good enough resolution. I agree this feels like something that should be available off-the-shelf at a reasonable price by now.
      - Sanddancer 11y ago
        Having a recognized GPS tracker in your car can usually get you a 10-20% discount. So if you're driving a reasonably recent and/or higher end car, you'll save more than that on insurance premiums.
  - 11y ago
5ilv3r 11y ago
Government monopoly!
salgernon 11y ago
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21582041-rich-world-seeing-less-and-less-crime-even-face-high-unemployment-and-economic http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21582041-rich-world-s... "But thanks to central locking, alarms and circuitry immune to hot-wiring, stealing a car is far harder than it was. In New York City the annual number of car thefts has fallen by 93% over the past 20 years. According to Graham Farrell, of Simon Fraser University in Canada, reducing car theft may have had broader knock-on effects than just restricting getaway options. Stealing a car for a joyride used to be a “gateway crime”, which would lead teenagers on to other crimes; now such escalation is restricted to Grand Theft Auto games (which, at least one study suggests, may themselves be reducing crime by keeping feisty young men occupied)" So, video games have made criminals into lazy slobs. I don't buy the car alarm thing - in the 20 years that they've been common, I don't believe anyone has ever called the police when they heard one go off. I'm willing to bet that car thieves are able to disable car alarms faster than the car owner, that can't figure out what button to press on the fob.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- tgsovlerkhgsel 11y ago
  "circuitry immune to hot-wiring" might have more to do with it than the alarms...
- netcan 11y ago
  I think you may be underestimating how easy some old cars were to steal. Alarms aren't perfect, but they're noisy and paranoia inducing. In some cases starting an old car could have been a matter of opening the door with a clothes hanger (these things weren't sealed too tight), pulling out the key thing, moving it aside and using a coin or something to turn the ignition. They were also worth something. It just isn't as easy in most places to flog a stolen car. At least not factoring for inflation or something, I guess. The economics of crime shift just like everything else. Sometimes stuff police or politicians or somesuch do helps too. Anything is possible.
  - 11y ago
intopieces 11y ago
MetroMile, which charges for its insurance based on the mile, has this feature. You can even log into their app to find where your car is parked.
jonknee 11y ago
Because newer cars are hardly ever stolen? The bigger issue is items being stolen out of vehicles, not the whole thing being stolen.
- astrodust 11y ago
  They're stolen all the time. Flatbed pickup, in and out, nobody even blinks. They just think it's being repossessed.
thescriptkiddie 11y ago
Because unless the thief brings a spare ECU with them, every car made in the past 15 years won't start without the correct key present.
bigiain 11y ago
Mostly 'cause no-one cares: http://www.dx.com/p/portable-mini-gsm-gprs-gps-tracker-for-personal-remote-positioning-22599 http://www.dx.com/p/portable-mini-gsm-gprs-gps-tracker-for-p... If you want it - it's a commodity, not a startup unicorn (unless you can find a way to give the trackers away, and sell all the tracking data to insurers/local cops/car manufacturer warranty departments...)

We can real time track the location of every phone in every pocket but tracking a vehicle is still a rare luxery. Why has no startup tackled this?

by brador 11y ago

We can real time track the location of every phone in every pocket but tracking a vehicle is still a rare luxery. Why has no startup tackled this?

theseatoms 11y ago

https://www.thetrackr.com/ https://www.thetrackr.com/

wyager 11y ago
Car tracking systems should use vehicle power so they last as long as the car does without charging or maintenance.
- Retric 11y ago
  That gets into cost vs benefit. Arguably, these things are best as part of the standard package from the manufacturer, but being able to remotely track everyone is going to throw up lot's of red flags for people. Also, it's easy to drive a car into a truck with a Faraday cage making these things almost useless if they did become common.
  - jessriedel 11y ago
    It substantially raises the costs and risks of theft.
  - seanp2k2 11y ago
    Geek utopia version: tech-savvy crims install a hidden faraday cage into the back of a nondescript vehicle transportation semi trailer. After observing the target for days, they cease the perfect opportunity to house the car onto 4 wheel dollies, load it into the trailer, and drive off with their ill-gotten booty, laughing maniacally. The poor owner is none the wiser until coming out from a fancy dinner with his trophy wife to find his treasured luxury vehicle missing. Real life: dude in a hoodie presses a fake gun into the back of the owner, instructs him to not turn around or call the cops, takes his phone, wallet, and keys, drives off in car with real key. Has a buyer lined up already. Drives car to location and it's promptly put inside a shipping container, which blocks the cell / gps signals by virtue of being made out of steel.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 11y ago
      In your second example the shipping container is a Fairday cage.
- toomanybeersies 11y ago
  What if the thieves remove the battery because they're parting out the car?

starquake 11y ago

Because you can already buy them. They are called GPS trackers. Try a Google search for "Car GPS Tracker".

brador 11y ago
Car GPS trackers are expensive, hard to install, poorly designed and just plain bad. It can't be hard to do it better. And if done right there's a massive market. You could get in with insurance companies to cover costs like NEST did with the energy companies. The Business model writes itself.
- jotux 11y ago
  After some very brief googling it seems like there are many decent choices. Here's one: http://www.awaregps.com/ http://www.awaregps.com/
  - jessriedel 11y ago
    $20 per month!?!
    - wlesieutre 11y ago
      If you're in a making mood, you could DIY something with a Particle Electron 3G for $3/month. 1MB of data ought to be enough for typical idling, and an extra $0.99/MB is pocket change if you need more data to recover the car once it's stolen. No GPS built in, so you could either add a GPS module or hope that cellular/wifi triangulation is good enough resolution. I agree this feels like something that should be available off-the-shelf at a reasonable price by now.
    - Sanddancer 11y ago
      Having a recognized GPS tracker in your car can usually get you a 10-20% discount. So if you're driving a reasonably recent and/or higher end car, you'll save more than that on insurance premiums.
- 11y ago

5ilv3r 11y ago

Government monopoly!

salgernon 11y ago

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21582041-rich-world-seeing-less-and-less-crime-even-face-high-unemployment-and-economic http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21582041-rich-world-s... "But thanks to central locking, alarms and circuitry immune to hot-wiring, stealing a car is far harder than it was. In New York City the annual number of car thefts has fallen by 93% over the past 20 years. According to Graham Farrell, of Simon Fraser University in Canada, reducing car theft may have had broader knock-on effects than just restricting getaway options. Stealing a car for a joyride used to be a “gateway crime”, which would lead teenagers on to other crimes; now such escalation is restricted to Grand Theft Auto games (which, at least one study suggests, may themselves be reducing crime by keeping feisty young men occupied)" So, video games have made criminals into lazy slobs. I don't buy the car alarm thing - in the 20 years that they've been common, I don't believe anyone has ever called the police when they heard one go off. I'm willing to bet that car thieves are able to disable car alarms faster than the car owner, that can't figure out what button to press on the fob.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
tgsovlerkhgsel 11y ago
"circuitry immune to hot-wiring" might have more to do with it than the alarms...
netcan 11y ago
I think you may be underestimating how easy some old cars were to steal. Alarms aren't perfect, but they're noisy and paranoia inducing. In some cases starting an old car could have been a matter of opening the door with a clothes hanger (these things weren't sealed too tight), pulling out the key thing, moving it aside and using a coin or something to turn the ignition. They were also worth something. It just isn't as easy in most places to flog a stolen car. At least not factoring for inflation or something, I guess. The economics of crime shift just like everything else. Sometimes stuff police or politicians or somesuch do helps too. Anything is possible.
- 11y ago

intopieces 11y ago

MetroMile, which charges for its insurance based on the mile, has this feature. You can even log into their app to find where your car is parked.

jonknee 11y ago

Because newer cars are hardly ever stolen? The bigger issue is items being stolen out of vehicles, not the whole thing being stolen.

astrodust 11y ago
They're stolen all the time. Flatbed pickup, in and out, nobody even blinks. They just think it's being repossessed.

thescriptkiddie 11y ago

Because unless the thief brings a spare ECU with them, every car made in the past 15 years won't start without the correct key present.

bigiain 11y ago

Mostly 'cause no-one cares: http://www.dx.com/p/portable-mini-gsm-gprs-gps-tracker-for-personal-remote-positioning-22599 http://www.dx.com/p/portable-mini-gsm-gprs-gps-tracker-for-p... If you want it - it's a commodity, not a startup unicorn (unless you can find a way to give the trackers away, and sell all the tracking data to insurers/local cops/car manufacturer warranty departments...)