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<I am not a pilot />The article briefly touches on this: when the flight computers on an Airbus are out, handling the plane is sufficiently strange to the pilot

<I am not a pilot />The article briefly touches on this: when the flight computers on an Airbus are out, handling the plane is sufficiently strange to the pilots that it's dangerous. They are used to the computers being pretty much in control. I also speculate, based on the passage about it being very difficult to look through a manual for angle information while the plane is bouncing, that their training produces a first instinct to go to the manual rather than "aviate ...".

lutorm 17y ago
a first instinct to go to the manual rather than "aviate ..." That's why there are two of them...
DanielBMarkham 17y ago
I'm a pilot, but just little planes and I haven't flown in years. But I do still read up on aviation accidents regularly -- lots of good lessons there. The question I have, which is very nuanced, is does the Fly-By-Wire system in the Airbus lend itself to making it harder to fly by the seat of your pants in partial panel situations than in a Boeing in the same situation? I'm not sure that question even can be answered. Commercial pilots are indoctrinated over and over again to go to the manual for everything. (I have a commercial license) I used to joke that if a UFO landed on the wing of a 747, the copilot would remain calm as he said something like "Looks like an alien craft on the wing, captain. We'll need the checklist for alien contact while in flight" Most of the time the big boys have no trouble at all transitioning from full computers to basic flight instruments, and there are plenty of standbys in a modern cockpit. I don't think there is yet another standby pitot besides the ones they already have, though. And nighttime flight over the ocean in IMC in heavy turbulence is an unusual situation to be in, but these guys should be pros. That's the type thing you should train in the simulators for -- "Let's turn the plane upside down, totally ice it up, and kill all the pitots" See how you guys handle that. Having said that, I don't fly the big birds. There's that deadly coffin corner to consider. Could be that the plane's sudden complex situation simply overwhelmed the ability of the pilots to handle it as quickly as they needed to.
- jrockway 17y ago
  But keep in mind what the physical FBW controls on the Airbus are like -- it's a gaming joystick that you control with your left hand (if you are the captain). I am shocked that A380s can land in crosswinds at all. There is also no non-synthetic force-feedback; if the computers don't think there is force, you don't feel any force. (Actually, I'm not sure there is any feedback on the Airbus. But I have only seen video demonstrations of the FBW system.) On mechanical or hydraulic flight controls, you can feel the control surfaces not moving because ... you can't move them. (I believed this helped the pilots of Alaska Airlines 261 realize what was happening. Everyone died anyway, but at least the pilots knew what was wrong...) I assume if the software totally fails, the plane is simply uncontrollable. I can't believe it would be designed that way, but I can't imagine how you are going to move the control surfaces either. (The software doesn't even have to fail; it could just ignore your input. I believe that some inputs are ignored in normal operation anyway, so this could just be a simple bug.) Anyway, FBW scares me... but I am not a pilot or airplane designer.

lutorm 17y ago

a first instinct to go to the manual rather than "aviate ..." That's why there are two of them...

DanielBMarkham 17y ago

I'm a pilot, but just little planes and I haven't flown in years. But I do still read up on aviation accidents regularly -- lots of good lessons there. The question I have, which is very nuanced, is does the Fly-By-Wire system in the Airbus lend itself to making it harder to fly by the seat of your pants in partial panel situations than in a Boeing in the same situation? I'm not sure that question even can be answered. Commercial pilots are indoctrinated over and over again to go to the manual for everything. (I have a commercial license) I used to joke that if a UFO landed on the wing of a 747, the copilot would remain calm as he said something like "Looks like an alien craft on the wing, captain. We'll need the checklist for alien contact while in flight" Most of the time the big boys have no trouble at all transitioning from full computers to basic flight instruments, and there are plenty of standbys in a modern cockpit. I don't think there is yet another standby pitot besides the ones they already have, though. And nighttime flight over the ocean in IMC in heavy turbulence is an unusual situation to be in, but these guys should be pros. That's the type thing you should train in the simulators for -- "Let's turn the plane upside down, totally ice it up, and kill all the pitots" See how you guys handle that. Having said that, I don't fly the big birds. There's that deadly coffin corner to consider. Could be that the plane's sudden complex situation simply overwhelmed the ability of the pilots to handle it as quickly as they needed to.

jrockway 17y ago
But keep in mind what the physical FBW controls on the Airbus are like -- it's a gaming joystick that you control with your left hand (if you are the captain). I am shocked that A380s can land in crosswinds at all. There is also no non-synthetic force-feedback; if the computers don't think there is force, you don't feel any force. (Actually, I'm not sure there is any feedback on the Airbus. But I have only seen video demonstrations of the FBW system.) On mechanical or hydraulic flight controls, you can feel the control surfaces not moving because ... you can't move them. (I believed this helped the pilots of Alaska Airlines 261 realize what was happening. Everyone died anyway, but at least the pilots knew what was wrong...) I assume if the software totally fails, the plane is simply uncontrollable. I can't believe it would be designed that way, but I can't imagine how you are going to move the control surfaces either. (The software doesn't even have to fail; it could just ignore your input. I believe that some inputs are ignored in normal operation anyway, so this could just be a simple bug.) Anyway, FBW scares me... but I am not a pilot or airplane designer.