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> Of note is how smallpox was used as a weapon: "You will do well to try to inoculate the Indians, by means of blankets, as well as to try every other method th

> Of note is how smallpox was used as a weapon: "You will do well to try to inoculate the Indians, by means of blankets, as well as to try every other method that can serve to extirpate this execrable race." — Jeffery Amherst Someone should find those Europeans and punish them. Or at the very least make their descendants feel guilty forever.

agentgt 11y ago
From what I remember reading up on it a while ago (and I'm probably wrong) a large part of the death was not intentional and was probably inevitable (like wise even for the black plague but a lesser degree.. it could have been avoided). Compare this to the Nazis or various other genocides which were highly avoidable and huge faults of humanity.
- golemotron 11y ago
  It doesn't matter Europeans destroyed indigenous cultures in America through the spread of disease. We should make sure that every child in the US knows this. We should also make sure that we remind people of it whenever people mention other tragedies like the Black Death. We're very bad people. We need to remember.
  - agentgt 11y ago
    It is and was called imperialism and almost every nation and civilization has done it (not that it excuses it). Even optimistic Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek future it continues on and is a topic (the prime directive). What do you think happened to the neanderthals? Survival instincts are just inherently nasty but we as humans should rise above these tendencies since we have the cognitive ability to do so. I mean for god sake look how we treat and what we do to the animals that we eat. A hundred years from now it might be seen as a serious moral slip on our part. We might all be very bad people.
    - golemotron 11y ago
      > Survival instincts are just inherently nasty but we as humans should rise above these tendencies since we have the cognitive ability to do so. Human nature is what it is. It has not changed in millennia, it's only sublimated by culture. Football is a substitute for war. Social media and Reality TV are a substitute for the 'gossip fence.' Gene Roddenberry had a transparently unrealistic model of humanity, and thank goodness. For many people it would boring beyond belief.
    - evook 11y ago
      The neanderthal genocid theory is a bit outdated. Actually they died because of an erruption below the phlegraean fields. Every human born in an area where neanderthals used to live is a far descendant of ybrids. Until today our dna is made of up to two percent of their dna. The mutations resulting in a low melanin levels and blue eyes are thought to be most likely inherited by neanderthals.
      - tremon 11y ago
        A recent YC thread had an alternative explanation: the male offspring of S/N interbreeding may have been sterile. The 2% of DNA you mention is all inherited through the female line.
  - saiya-jin 11y ago
    you mean those folks who went away from europe/were kicked out for various reasons, and came to america and afterwards did those things? i agree with your outrage since it shows pure evil, but logically most descendants of those people should be US citizens for many generations.
  - ChristianBundy 11y ago
    > We're very bad people. We need to remember. I understand the ancestral affinity you may feel to the perpetrators, but we aren't bad people because our ancestors made terrible decisions.
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      > but we aren't bad people because our ancestors made terrible decisions True; we're bad people because we're still making terrible decisions today, but you can't run an empire without breaking a few countries.
      - kaeluka 11y ago
        > you can't run an empire without breaking a few countries. I don't know. It hasn't been tried before.
  - maehwasu 11y ago
    Sounds like an awesome way to spend your life, enjoy!
kayoone 11y ago
By now "those european" descendants probably have a long family history in the United States...
tossaway1 11y ago
> Someone should find those Europeans and punish them. In the case of "Lord Jeff" he instead has a prestigious small college as well as a largish university named after him.
barking 11y ago
Very droll I'm sure, but 'tis but a small price to pay for your stolen inheritance.
joe-m 11y ago
Why? Most Americans are of European descent (perhaps distant). Regardless, Punishing people for the crimes of their ancestors is nonsense.
Spooky23 11y ago
Hanging your head in shame is a useless gesture. Human beings have a dark side when external threat, political or territorial ambitions get involved. The implication to this hand-wringing that appears here and in literature is that "we" as a human race is somehow "better" or "reformed" now vs. then. That's absolutely false, and given the right situation, we always demonstrate that we're capable of any form of depravity that you can imagine (and many that you probably cannot imagine).
bcook 11y ago
Learning from past mistakes is much more important than feeling guilt or any other emotional response...
dang 11y ago
Please don't post glib and harsh comments about terrible things. It harms discussion. Others get defensive (if they disagree) or aggressive (if they agree). Both states lead away from thoughtful conversation, the thing we're hoping for here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11519194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11519194 and marked it off-topic.

agentgt 11y ago

From what I remember reading up on it a while ago (and I'm probably wrong) a large part of the death was not intentional and was probably inevitable (like wise even for the black plague but a lesser degree.. it could have been avoided). Compare this to the Nazis or various other genocides which were highly avoidable and huge faults of humanity.

golemotron 11y ago
It doesn't matter Europeans destroyed indigenous cultures in America through the spread of disease. We should make sure that every child in the US knows this. We should also make sure that we remind people of it whenever people mention other tragedies like the Black Death. We're very bad people. We need to remember.
- agentgt 11y ago
  It is and was called imperialism and almost every nation and civilization has done it (not that it excuses it). Even optimistic Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek future it continues on and is a topic (the prime directive). What do you think happened to the neanderthals? Survival instincts are just inherently nasty but we as humans should rise above these tendencies since we have the cognitive ability to do so. I mean for god sake look how we treat and what we do to the animals that we eat. A hundred years from now it might be seen as a serious moral slip on our part. We might all be very bad people.
  - golemotron 11y ago
    > Survival instincts are just inherently nasty but we as humans should rise above these tendencies since we have the cognitive ability to do so. Human nature is what it is. It has not changed in millennia, it's only sublimated by culture. Football is a substitute for war. Social media and Reality TV are a substitute for the 'gossip fence.' Gene Roddenberry had a transparently unrealistic model of humanity, and thank goodness. For many people it would boring beyond belief.
  - evook 11y ago
    The neanderthal genocid theory is a bit outdated. Actually they died because of an erruption below the phlegraean fields. Every human born in an area where neanderthals used to live is a far descendant of ybrids. Until today our dna is made of up to two percent of their dna. The mutations resulting in a low melanin levels and blue eyes are thought to be most likely inherited by neanderthals.
    - tremon 11y ago
      A recent YC thread had an alternative explanation: the male offspring of S/N interbreeding may have been sterile. The 2% of DNA you mention is all inherited through the female line.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  you mean those folks who went away from europe/were kicked out for various reasons, and came to america and afterwards did those things? i agree with your outrage since it shows pure evil, but logically most descendants of those people should be US citizens for many generations.
- ChristianBundy 11y ago
  > We're very bad people. We need to remember. I understand the ancestral affinity you may feel to the perpetrators, but we aren't bad people because our ancestors made terrible decisions.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    > but we aren't bad people because our ancestors made terrible decisions True; we're bad people because we're still making terrible decisions today, but you can't run an empire without breaking a few countries.
    - kaeluka 11y ago
      > you can't run an empire without breaking a few countries. I don't know. It hasn't been tried before.
- maehwasu 11y ago
  Sounds like an awesome way to spend your life, enjoy!

kayoone 11y ago

By now "those european" descendants probably have a long family history in the United States...

tossaway1 11y ago

> Someone should find those Europeans and punish them. In the case of "Lord Jeff" he instead has a prestigious small college as well as a largish university named after him.

barking 11y ago

Very droll I'm sure, but 'tis but a small price to pay for your stolen inheritance.

joe-m 11y ago

Why? Most Americans are of European descent (perhaps distant). Regardless, Punishing people for the crimes of their ancestors is nonsense.

Spooky23 11y ago

Hanging your head in shame is a useless gesture. Human beings have a dark side when external threat, political or territorial ambitions get involved. The implication to this hand-wringing that appears here and in literature is that "we" as a human race is somehow "better" or "reformed" now vs. then. That's absolutely false, and given the right situation, we always demonstrate that we're capable of any form of depravity that you can imagine (and many that you probably cannot imagine).

bcook 11y ago

Learning from past mistakes is much more important than feeling guilt or any other emotional response...

dang 11y ago

Please don't post glib and harsh comments about terrible things. It harms discussion. Others get defensive (if they disagree) or aggressive (if they agree). Both states lead away from thoughtful conversation, the thing we're hoping for here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11519194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11519194 and marked it off-topic.