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Religions make some kind of honest claim on metaphysical Truth. Satire is at odds with that. The clever thing is that getting the government to pick winners he

Religions make some kind of honest claim on metaphysical Truth. Satire is at odds with that. The clever thing is that getting the government to pick winners here is actually worse than letting someone wear a colander in his ID photo. This doesn't undermine organized religion as much as it demonstrates the limitations of liberal government. I'm not sure that's a win for anyone.

lmm 11y ago
More and more I'm starting to think that intentions don't/shouldn't matter. If someone's asking for special treatment or their own laws, does it really matter whether the reason for it is sincere belief or not?
Freak_NL 11y ago
If governments are eventually forced to abandon the special privileges afforded by law to religions because of satirical mock-religions, then I think the country as a whole benefits. The question pastafarianism poses though, is how can you differentiate between satire and 'the real thing'? What if pastafarians claim that, yes, it started out as a joke, but now we really believe in His Noodly Appendage? As a normal citizen it isn't hard to conclude that 'obviously', this is satire, but law must not be based on what we feel is satire or religion, it has to be objective.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Apparently some people argue that the absurdity of these religions can itself lead to a spiritual experience: "Several religions that are classified as parody religions have a number of relatively serious followers who embrace the perceived absurdity of these religions as spiritually significant" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion
- humanrebar 11y ago
  > If governments are eventually forced to abandon the special privileges afforded by law to religions because of satirical mock-religions, then I think the country as a whole benefits. I don't think it's so easy to disentangle freedom of expression and freedom of conscience from what some consider 'special privileges'. Of course, this varies widely by country. Some of the comments here might be talking past each other because everyone has a different idea about what might count as 'special' privileges.
anexprogrammer 11y ago
> Religions make some kind of honest claim on metaphysical Truth There are widely accepted religions which have very dubious claims on that front. I'm not sure therefore that pastafarianism is any less deserving of the status of religion simply for being overtly satire. I'll intentionally refrain from naming as my aim is not to start a flame war.
- tim333 11y ago
  Indeed if you look at the history of all of them there's politics in there.
Retric 11y ago
But, they do claim to be spouting truth. Namely that no religion actually knows about the Divine. Sure, it's missing a long list of laws etc, but is that cruft what defines a religion?
tim333 11y ago
I think it demonstrates the advantages of liberal government unless you'd like the blasphemers executed like they try to do to Christians in Pakistan for example.

lmm 11y ago

More and more I'm starting to think that intentions don't/shouldn't matter. If someone's asking for special treatment or their own laws, does it really matter whether the reason for it is sincere belief or not?

Freak_NL 11y ago

If governments are eventually forced to abandon the special privileges afforded by law to religions because of satirical mock-religions, then I think the country as a whole benefits. The question pastafarianism poses though, is how can you differentiate between satire and 'the real thing'? What if pastafarians claim that, yes, it started out as a joke, but now we really believe in His Noodly Appendage? As a normal citizen it isn't hard to conclude that 'obviously', this is satire, but law must not be based on what we feel is satire or religion, it has to be objective.

arethuza 11y ago
Apparently some people argue that the absurdity of these religions can itself lead to a spiritual experience: "Several religions that are classified as parody religions have a number of relatively serious followers who embrace the perceived absurdity of these religions as spiritually significant" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion
humanrebar 11y ago
> If governments are eventually forced to abandon the special privileges afforded by law to religions because of satirical mock-religions, then I think the country as a whole benefits. I don't think it's so easy to disentangle freedom of expression and freedom of conscience from what some consider 'special privileges'. Of course, this varies widely by country. Some of the comments here might be talking past each other because everyone has a different idea about what might count as 'special' privileges.

anexprogrammer 11y ago

> Religions make some kind of honest claim on metaphysical Truth There are widely accepted religions which have very dubious claims on that front. I'm not sure therefore that pastafarianism is any less deserving of the status of religion simply for being overtly satire. I'll intentionally refrain from naming as my aim is not to start a flame war.

tim333 11y ago
Indeed if you look at the history of all of them there's politics in there.

Retric 11y ago

But, they do claim to be spouting truth. Namely that no religion actually knows about the Divine. Sure, it's missing a long list of laws etc, but is that cruft what defines a religion?

tim333 11y ago

I think it demonstrates the advantages of liberal government unless you'd like the blasphemers executed like they try to do to Christians in Pakistan for example.