4 ms·

Pretty interesting story. Not sure if anyone did anything wrong other than mishearing. A passenger thinks she hears someone sign off of a conversation with "ma

by Will_Do 10y ago

Pretty interesting story. Not sure if anyone did anything wrong other than mishearing. A passenger thinks she hears someone sign off of a conversation with "martyr" and reports it. Given that information he's thrown off the plane which is also reasonable. The guy who got kicked off also did nothing wrong. He was just talking to his uncle. I suspect the same thing would happen to anyone regardless of race or nationality should the words Allah and martyr be uttered in close succession on a plane.

JamilD 10y ago
"Shahid", the Arabic word for martyr, is a common first name. Saying that name in certain contexts might be cause for suspicion, but certainly not denying someone boarding.
yifanlu 10y ago
No. Let's see what happens if this same story is told without the racism. Bob is on the phone with his mother and said he will have a "salad" tonight. Sally across the aisle heard it as "suicide" and reports him. The attendant promptly calls security, has him evicted, and the FBI is called. Does that sound reasonable to you? So no. Many people did lots of things wrong that day. The passenger who obviously doesn't know arabic mishears a word and reports him out of prejudice. The staff who took the complaint seriously because of his race. The security and FBI who harassed him for a long time as a result. Do you really think a white man uttering Allah (where that's the only word heard by another passenger) would be subjected to the same treatment? And also, even if the man WAS a terrorist, do you really think he would go on the phone and talk about his terrorist plots in the open? Even if this guy said "martyr", that still does not warrant the treatment he received. Just like if Bob actually said "suicide," literally it's just a word that's sometimes used in a bad context. He wasn't misheard as saying "I will blow up this plane." So it took many layers of prejudice for this to happen.
- vixen99 10y ago
  Easy to rationalize after the event. Perforce because of our partial knowledge, we use prejudice (and faulty logic in the heat of the moment) everyday. It's also known as pre-judgement and it often gets things wrong. I don't know anybody these days who doesn't look round at his or her fellow-passengers on a flight, and wonder.
  - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
    I don't-no one has successfully hijacked an American airliner after 9/11. The odds of it happening probably aren't that great.
- mindslight 10y ago
  Discerning motivations and monday morning quarterbacking whether they were justified or not is a quagmire of futility. Really, the victim just needs to be made whole - force these organizations to stop creating externalities out of their self-created costs. To me, it sounds like the victim in this case is owed an automatic payment of at least several thousand dollars for the lost day, emotional distress, etc. The civil damages in a general kidnapping/wrongful imprisonment case are also a good reference point. He really should sue - free apologies don't reform bad incentives. Southwest should have also removed the reporting woman from the plane so the victim could face his accuser, and also to reduce frivolous complaints. If she really thinks he was a t'rist, she should be wanting to get off that plane regardless.
  - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
    I think this is reasonable deterrence. The accuser should be asked to get off the plane, and remain with the authorities, till such a time as the accused is allowed to leave or is taken into custody.
  - im3w1l 10y ago
    You are responding as if the reporting woman could have, should have, expected this outcome. For all she knew, the report could have just resulted in an extra-thorough search.
    - mindslight 10y ago
      They had already boarded the plane. The only possible outcomes were nothing, or his removal from that flight. It seems reasonable, and incentive-aligning, for both of them to be removed from the plane.
      - im3w1l 10y ago
        So take him off the plane, search, and let back on? Delay the departure 15 min. Maybe the policies don't work like that though.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
How about instead of 'thinking' she heard something sounding like martyr, she dons but more research?
azernik 10y ago
Except that, in Arabic, "Allah" is just how you say "God". And the number of standard set phrases that include the word ("inshallah" (God willing), "al-hamdu lillah" (praise the Lord!), "bismillah" (by God), "wallahi" (oh God, wow), etc.) are enormous. So a ban on saying the word "Allah" is basically a ban on speaking any normal variant of Arabic.
- smnrchrds 10y ago
  Also these words are often used for their idiomatic meaning: "inshallah" (God willing): Hopefully "al-hamdu lillah" (praise the Lord!): Fortunately "wallah" (oh God, wow): I swear, I promise etc.
khnd 10y ago
can't tell if you're trolling.

by Will_Do 10y ago

JamilD 10y ago

"Shahid", the Arabic word for martyr, is a common first name. Saying that name in certain contexts might be cause for suspicion, but certainly not denying someone boarding.

yifanlu 10y ago

No. Let's see what happens if this same story is told without the racism. Bob is on the phone with his mother and said he will have a "salad" tonight. Sally across the aisle heard it as "suicide" and reports him. The attendant promptly calls security, has him evicted, and the FBI is called. Does that sound reasonable to you? So no. Many people did lots of things wrong that day. The passenger who obviously doesn't know arabic mishears a word and reports him out of prejudice. The staff who took the complaint seriously because of his race. The security and FBI who harassed him for a long time as a result. Do you really think a white man uttering Allah (where that's the only word heard by another passenger) would be subjected to the same treatment? And also, even if the man WAS a terrorist, do you really think he would go on the phone and talk about his terrorist plots in the open? Even if this guy said "martyr", that still does not warrant the treatment he received. Just like if Bob actually said "suicide," literally it's just a word that's sometimes used in a bad context. He wasn't misheard as saying "I will blow up this plane." So it took many layers of prejudice for this to happen.

vixen99 10y ago
Easy to rationalize after the event. Perforce because of our partial knowledge, we use prejudice (and faulty logic in the heat of the moment) everyday. It's also known as pre-judgement and it often gets things wrong. I don't know anybody these days who doesn't look round at his or her fellow-passengers on a flight, and wonder.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
  I don't-no one has successfully hijacked an American airliner after 9/11. The odds of it happening probably aren't that great.
mindslight 10y ago
Discerning motivations and monday morning quarterbacking whether they were justified or not is a quagmire of futility. Really, the victim just needs to be made whole - force these organizations to stop creating externalities out of their self-created costs. To me, it sounds like the victim in this case is owed an automatic payment of at least several thousand dollars for the lost day, emotional distress, etc. The civil damages in a general kidnapping/wrongful imprisonment case are also a good reference point. He really should sue - free apologies don't reform bad incentives. Southwest should have also removed the reporting woman from the plane so the victim could face his accuser, and also to reduce frivolous complaints. If she really thinks he was a t'rist, she should be wanting to get off that plane regardless.
- yazaddaruvala 10y ago
  I think this is reasonable deterrence. The accuser should be asked to get off the plane, and remain with the authorities, till such a time as the accused is allowed to leave or is taken into custody.
- im3w1l 10y ago
  You are responding as if the reporting woman could have, should have, expected this outcome. For all she knew, the report could have just resulted in an extra-thorough search.
  - mindslight 10y ago
    They had already boarded the plane. The only possible outcomes were nothing, or his removal from that flight. It seems reasonable, and incentive-aligning, for both of them to be removed from the plane.
    - im3w1l 10y ago
      So take him off the plane, search, and let back on? Delay the departure 15 min. Maybe the policies don't work like that though.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ZanyProgrammer 10y ago

How about instead of 'thinking' she heard something sounding like martyr, she dons but more research?

azernik 10y ago

Except that, in Arabic, "Allah" is just how you say "God". And the number of standard set phrases that include the word ("inshallah" (God willing), "al-hamdu lillah" (praise the Lord!), "bismillah" (by God), "wallahi" (oh God, wow), etc.) are enormous. So a ban on saying the word "Allah" is basically a ban on speaking any normal variant of Arabic.

smnrchrds 10y ago
Also these words are often used for their idiomatic meaning: "inshallah" (God willing): Hopefully "al-hamdu lillah" (praise the Lord!): Fortunately "wallah" (oh God, wow): I swear, I promise etc.

khnd 10y ago

can't tell if you're trolling.