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Despite getting very close to the best possible case for an iOS game (#1 on app store for a more than 0 days), am I the only one that is pretty dissapointed at

Despite getting very close to the best possible case for an iOS game (#1 on app store for a more than 0 days), am I the only one that is pretty dissapointed at how he was compensated? He didn't actually make $700k -- after Apple took theirs, and the gov't took theirs, he was left with ~$150K in his most successful year... I guess the freedom to do nothing while your app just rakes in money is great, but it seems like the probability of hitting this case is very low, and a stable job (though he would have possibly not liked the monotony) would have made him much more money. All this said, I'm about to strike out on my own with a one man LLC, so as others have said, this information is golden. [EDIT] - Many have pointed out that I missed the ~$280K that he gave to his partner (the content creator) -- so in his most successful year, he stood to make (had he been truly solo) ~$430K, which actually is pretty substantial, for a one time effort... But what is the probability of someone's iPhone game getting to #1 on the app store?

Scirra_Tom 11y ago
> after Apple took theirs, and the gov't took theirs, he was left with ~$150K in his most successful year... You've left off the biggest deduction, $280,000 to his partner. 3x more than he paid to the government in taxation.
maxerickson 11y ago
You've left out the 276,500 that the owner of the content got (about 1/3 of the revenue).
IkmoIkmo 11y ago
Well, let's just say that I think if you look at the top 10% of salaries in this industry, compared to other industries, it's probably not great. Note I'm talking about salaries of people, not Supercell's income. i.e. if you look at the top 10% earning doctors, lawyers, musicians etc, I don't expect the app store to look great. And if you look at the median, the app store will likely be very, very substantially subpar. And if you look at the bottom 10%, it's probably a complete joke. All in all, I don't think the app store is an interesting place anymore for the average dev. But that's probably true of most entrepreneurs I feel. It's so hard to compete with big businesses, that you're either in a niche they can't conquer, doing something special, or you're losing to them. It's either great, or shit, and the great is a tiny percentage.
- animal531 11y ago
  But also on the other hand (depending on the title/stage of development) you can possibly count it as passive income...in which case it's a very nice addition. But I agree on the app store, the $1 market just makes it so that the average person will never make any real amount of money.
jonnathanson 11y ago
He implies that this happened organically, without paid installs. And his price point is $.99 at the time of this writing. And he doesn't use IAP. Those are choices he's made that drastically limit the upside he could earn. I respect the hell out of those choices, to be clear. But they are choices. It's well understood that the way to actually strike gold in mobile gaming these days is to get to a point where you're arbitraging paid installs. You've got IAP hooks up and running, you've got quasi-addictive mechanics dialed in, and your blended CAC is less than your LTV on converted installs. You spend a boatload on installs every week, which are recouped by the revenue you earn from your casuals and especially your whales. Now you're in the shitty IAP/P2W business, alongside everyone else. Now your game kinda sucks. But now you're minting money. That's pretty much the BigPublisher playbook. Indies can run it, too, albeit only to a point, and with a lot of soul sacrifice. All of that said and done, I am impressed and inspired by what the author has been able to accomplish organically. And, while his earnings may seem depressing from an outside perspective, they are respectable, and to be respected. If he wants to build a larger business from here, again, he'll have to make some Faustian choices as outlined above. Or he'll need to raise his price points and/or adopt a high/low versioning approach. This is the way the world is going to work until Apple and Google decide to put the smackdown on paid installs. Which they won't, because their big publishers make them so much money, and their big publishers have optimized a formula reliant on paid installs and drowning out the small guy. (Theoretically, feature placements are supposed to counteract this phenomenon -- but, as the author points out, they accrue most readily to the big publishers, who can afford to invest millions in production values, and whose games are big enough to be itemized on the App Store's monthly earnings statements.)
- TimPC 11y ago
  I think P2W has ruined IAP for most people. I highly like IAP when it's stuff like paying for chapters of a game that you then own permanently and pay for when you want. Admittedly that's a less exciting business model, but I'm a lot happier paying $5 for a chapter of a game 4 times with the possiblity of new content in the future than $15.00 up front without having played the game. What sucks is the IAP are business models where you pay to win, have a limited ability to play the game on any day, and the advantage from paid goes away if you don't play on any day. Those models basically create crappy but addictive games that are essentially legalized lottery systems for minors without the cash winnings.
to3m 11y ago
His partner's calculations for their $280K-odd would look the same. Had he been working alone he'd have ended up with more like $300K. (But you tell me... I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of US tax laws.)
kdamken 11y ago
You're right, it's absolutely disgusting how much they take for doing essentially no work.
blazespin 11y ago
Have you played the game? A senior engineer could have ported this in a month, easily. It's a really really great game, but, he didn't create it. Just ported it. And it's just text.
OpenDrapery 11y ago
Curious, is your one man LLC going to be you doing contract work? Or do you have a product/service with a business model? After reading this article (http://www.daedtech.com/im-a-business-man/ http://www.daedtech.com/im-a-business-man/), I'm increasingly interested in starting a one man LLC "just because". Have you found any good resources out there for the developer who decides to go it alone?
- hardwaresofton 11y ago
  I'm actually planning on doing both -- I plan on using the LLC to travel, and taking enough runway for roughly a year. If in that time I can't bootstrap some business that provides a livable amount of recurring revenue, I'll be contracting/consulting where I can. Worst case, run out of runway, and start contracting for some big company where I plan to move (or come back to the states) I dunno if starting the LLC "just because" makes sense -- you can report side-work on your taxes even if you don't make the LLC... I didn't really look for resources on going it alone, mostly because I just don't think there's that much in it. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of effort here, but I expect some more stress around tax time, and maybe having to create a business bank account but other than that, I get the feeling I won't think about it much.

Scirra_Tom 11y ago

> after Apple took theirs, and the gov't took theirs, he was left with ~$150K in his most successful year... You've left off the biggest deduction, $280,000 to his partner. 3x more than he paid to the government in taxation.

maxerickson 11y ago

You've left out the 276,500 that the owner of the content got (about 1/3 of the revenue).

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

Well, let's just say that I think if you look at the top 10% of salaries in this industry, compared to other industries, it's probably not great. Note I'm talking about salaries of people, not Supercell's income. i.e. if you look at the top 10% earning doctors, lawyers, musicians etc, I don't expect the app store to look great. And if you look at the median, the app store will likely be very, very substantially subpar. And if you look at the bottom 10%, it's probably a complete joke. All in all, I don't think the app store is an interesting place anymore for the average dev. But that's probably true of most entrepreneurs I feel. It's so hard to compete with big businesses, that you're either in a niche they can't conquer, doing something special, or you're losing to them. It's either great, or shit, and the great is a tiny percentage.

animal531 11y ago
But also on the other hand (depending on the title/stage of development) you can possibly count it as passive income...in which case it's a very nice addition. But I agree on the app store, the $1 market just makes it so that the average person will never make any real amount of money.

jonnathanson 11y ago

He implies that this happened organically, without paid installs. And his price point is $.99 at the time of this writing. And he doesn't use IAP. Those are choices he's made that drastically limit the upside he could earn. I respect the hell out of those choices, to be clear. But they are choices. It's well understood that the way to actually strike gold in mobile gaming these days is to get to a point where you're arbitraging paid installs. You've got IAP hooks up and running, you've got quasi-addictive mechanics dialed in, and your blended CAC is less than your LTV on converted installs. You spend a boatload on installs every week, which are recouped by the revenue you earn from your casuals and especially your whales. Now you're in the shitty IAP/P2W business, alongside everyone else. Now your game kinda sucks. But now you're minting money. That's pretty much the BigPublisher playbook. Indies can run it, too, albeit only to a point, and with a lot of soul sacrifice. All of that said and done, I am impressed and inspired by what the author has been able to accomplish organically. And, while his earnings may seem depressing from an outside perspective, they are respectable, and to be respected. If he wants to build a larger business from here, again, he'll have to make some Faustian choices as outlined above. Or he'll need to raise his price points and/or adopt a high/low versioning approach. This is the way the world is going to work until Apple and Google decide to put the smackdown on paid installs. Which they won't, because their big publishers make them so much money, and their big publishers have optimized a formula reliant on paid installs and drowning out the small guy. (Theoretically, feature placements are supposed to counteract this phenomenon -- but, as the author points out, they accrue most readily to the big publishers, who can afford to invest millions in production values, and whose games are big enough to be itemized on the App Store's monthly earnings statements.)

TimPC 11y ago
I think P2W has ruined IAP for most people. I highly like IAP when it's stuff like paying for chapters of a game that you then own permanently and pay for when you want. Admittedly that's a less exciting business model, but I'm a lot happier paying $5 for a chapter of a game 4 times with the possiblity of new content in the future than $15.00 up front without having played the game. What sucks is the IAP are business models where you pay to win, have a limited ability to play the game on any day, and the advantage from paid goes away if you don't play on any day. Those models basically create crappy but addictive games that are essentially legalized lottery systems for minors without the cash winnings.

to3m 11y ago

His partner's calculations for their $280K-odd would look the same. Had he been working alone he'd have ended up with more like $300K. (But you tell me... I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of US tax laws.)

kdamken 11y ago

You're right, it's absolutely disgusting how much they take for doing essentially no work.

blazespin 11y ago

Have you played the game? A senior engineer could have ported this in a month, easily. It's a really really great game, but, he didn't create it. Just ported it. And it's just text.

OpenDrapery 11y ago

Curious, is your one man LLC going to be you doing contract work? Or do you have a product/service with a business model? After reading this article (http://www.daedtech.com/im-a-business-man/ http://www.daedtech.com/im-a-business-man/), I'm increasingly interested in starting a one man LLC "just because". Have you found any good resources out there for the developer who decides to go it alone?

hardwaresofton 11y ago
I'm actually planning on doing both -- I plan on using the LLC to travel, and taking enough runway for roughly a year. If in that time I can't bootstrap some business that provides a livable amount of recurring revenue, I'll be contracting/consulting where I can. Worst case, run out of runway, and start contracting for some big company where I plan to move (or come back to the states) I dunno if starting the LLC "just because" makes sense -- you can report side-work on your taxes even if you don't make the LLC... I didn't really look for resources on going it alone, mostly because I just don't think there's that much in it. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of effort here, but I expect some more stress around tax time, and maybe having to create a business bank account but other than that, I get the feeling I won't think about it much.