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American slavery (not just in the USA, slavery throughout the Americas) is a big deal, of which there are no parallels in history considering its scale and its

by lbebber 10y ago

American slavery (not just in the USA, slavery throughout the Americas) is a big deal, of which there are no parallels in history considering its scale and its racist character, didn't happen that long ago, and its echoes are still being felt very much today, so it should absolutely be viewed through "special lens".

brbsix 10y ago
A very cursory search would reveal that to be completely, utterly wrong. The Arab slave trade was at least as large (in terms of sheer number of victims), for a much greater duration, and as recent as 50-60 years ago if Wikipedia is to believed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade Historians estimate that between 650 and the 1960s, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Sahara, the Red Sea, and the western Indian Ocean. http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_slaves_came_to_america_fact_vs_fiction.html http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_sla... http://www.slavevoyages.org/ http://www.slavevoyages.org/ Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.
- iofj 10y ago
  Arab slave trade is alive and well today : "Slavery in Mali exists today, with as many as 200,000 people held in direct servitude to a master. Since 2006, a movement called Temedt has been active in Mali struggling against the persistence of slavery and the discrimination associated with ex-slaves. There were reports that in the Tuareg Rebellion of 2012, ex-slaves were recaptured by their former masters." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mali And to go even more controversial : they are (today) large movements in islam that see restoration of slavery as a goal [1]. Some, famously ISIS, do it in practice too (they buy and sell humans, and are proud of it, because apparently, so did the prophet. Why leftists are advocating tolerance/justice towards a pro-slavery group in America is beyond me ...). But in many parts of Africa and the middle east there are current islamic governments supporting slavery, essentially all of the ones on the northern border of the Sahara in Africa and in the middle east, all the religious ones [2]. I read a UN report that essentially said that because of islam, slavery is spreading, today. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery [2] http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/11/inside-the-world-of-gulf-state-slavery.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/11/inside-the-... or worse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan
  - dang 10y ago
    We've asked you repeatedly not to prosecute religious flamewars on Hacker News. There's a small number of users for whom this anti-Islam stuff is an idée fixe and they haul barrels of it around and dump it into HN threads when anybody makes the mistake of opening a tangential wormhole to it. It's shrill, nasty, and utterly unresolvable here. Please don't be one of them.
- lbebber 10y ago
  From your quotes: "10 to 18 million people enslaved" vs "12.5 million shipped from Africa" (that is, discounting slaves born in the Americas). But no matter - even if it was worse somewhere else, the point is that American slavery was, yes, something especially terrible - and, importantly, with consequences still felt today - that should definitely be viewed through "special lens".
  - brbsix 10y ago
    The wording is vague, but I believe it's also in reference to the number of slaves shipped. One of the Wikipedia page's sources is "Islam's Black Slaves" by Ronald Segal. He estimates the total number of African slaves shipped to the Muslim world at 11.5-14 million. Raymond Mauvy estimates it at 14 million shipped. I wasn't able to find a good estimate for total number ever enslaved for either the Americas or the Muslim world.

by lbebber 10y ago

brbsix 10y ago

A very cursory search would reveal that to be completely, utterly wrong. The Arab slave trade was at least as large (in terms of sheer number of victims), for a much greater duration, and as recent as 50-60 years ago if Wikipedia is to believed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade Historians estimate that between 650 and the 1960s, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Sahara, the Red Sea, and the western Indian Ocean. http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_slaves_came_to_america_fact_vs_fiction.html http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_sla... http://www.slavevoyages.org/ http://www.slavevoyages.org/ Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.

iofj 10y ago
Arab slave trade is alive and well today : "Slavery in Mali exists today, with as many as 200,000 people held in direct servitude to a master. Since 2006, a movement called Temedt has been active in Mali struggling against the persistence of slavery and the discrimination associated with ex-slaves. There were reports that in the Tuareg Rebellion of 2012, ex-slaves were recaptured by their former masters." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mali And to go even more controversial : they are (today) large movements in islam that see restoration of slavery as a goal [1]. Some, famously ISIS, do it in practice too (they buy and sell humans, and are proud of it, because apparently, so did the prophet. Why leftists are advocating tolerance/justice towards a pro-slavery group in America is beyond me ...). But in many parts of Africa and the middle east there are current islamic governments supporting slavery, essentially all of the ones on the northern border of the Sahara in Africa and in the middle east, all the religious ones [2]. I read a UN report that essentially said that because of islam, slavery is spreading, today. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery [2] http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/11/inside-the-world-of-gulf-state-slavery.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/11/inside-the-... or worse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_bin_Zayed_Al_Nahyan
- dang 10y ago
  We've asked you repeatedly not to prosecute religious flamewars on Hacker News. There's a small number of users for whom this anti-Islam stuff is an idée fixe and they haul barrels of it around and dump it into HN threads when anybody makes the mistake of opening a tangential wormhole to it. It's shrill, nasty, and utterly unresolvable here. Please don't be one of them.
lbebber 10y ago
From your quotes: "10 to 18 million people enslaved" vs "12.5 million shipped from Africa" (that is, discounting slaves born in the Americas). But no matter - even if it was worse somewhere else, the point is that American slavery was, yes, something especially terrible - and, importantly, with consequences still felt today - that should definitely be viewed through "special lens".
- brbsix 10y ago
  The wording is vague, but I believe it's also in reference to the number of slaves shipped. One of the Wikipedia page's sources is "Islam's Black Slaves" by Ronald Segal. He estimates the total number of African slaves shipped to the Muslim world at 11.5-14 million. Raymond Mauvy estimates it at 14 million shipped. I wasn't able to find a good estimate for total number ever enslaved for either the Americas or the Muslim world.