4 ms·

"Neoliberalism" - the straw man at the root of all left wing polemic.

by elcapitan 11y ago

johnchristopher 11y ago
Eh. "Communism" - the straw man at the root of all right wing polemic. :)
- AdrianB1 11y ago
  Have you ever lived under communism to know what is like? Can you recognize communism when the party that promotes communist measures have not the word "Communist" in the name?
  - x5n1 11y ago
    At the end of the day what's wrong with ideology is that people look to ideology, just as they did to religion, to provide some sense of comfort and security and make them feel as if things will okay in the future. Neo-liberalism and Communism don't do that. Religion did that. That's what people want.
    - fthssht 11y ago
      Your problem with ideology is that its not as comforting as religion? I think ideology can help take a 10,000 foot view of highly complex situations. There are many factors in a political or economic decision but we can easily say that free markets have worked better through global history than communism.
      - x5n1 11y ago
        Economics is all about models. Models that are highly constrained by the current level of technology and other variables. Variables which are in constant flux. With big data you don't need models, you have actual real time information about the entire system. You also have means of using that data to make live predictions that can change all the time. Just because history says that "free markets" worked best, does not mean that this is true any more. It was historically a fact because you did not have big data or ways of computing to process supply and demand properly.
        TheCowboy 11y ago
        Big data is just data. Though it's often sold as delivering omniscience, it doesn't inherently explain causation. It could allow in the creation of better or new models, and reduce the delay in finding out what we already know with existing models. But you won't ever get rid of models completely, as any method of prediction is itself based on a model. But I agree with your bigger point about there being possible methods/technologies that supersede some aspects of naked free markets, or mixed markets as we know them.
        bubuga 11y ago
        > With big data you don't need models, you have actual real time information about the entire system. Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Models are just means to predict the future based on observations made in the present and/or in the past. The available data, in this sense, serves only two purposes: serve as the starting conditions to analyze how scenarios may evolve within a given degree of accuracy, or to build correlation models to help analyze scenarios with a given degree of accuracy. A model is a tool that tells you how systems evolve and lets you infer what you can expect out of them in order to make informed decisions. > You also have means of using that data to make live predictions that can change all the time. Again, this is absolute nonsense. Models are used to make decisions based on how things are expected to be years and decades into the future. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that you can tell how things will be in the immediate future if you're trying to make decisions based on what will happen over the following decades. > Just because history says that "free markets" worked best, does not mean that this is true any more. Holy non-sequitur, Batman. You sure wanted to shoe-horn that little gem in there. Furthermore, free-market isn't or will not be any more or any less true than what is right now or was in the past. The free market is just a specific theoretical definition of an economic system. It establishes conditions, draws relationships between factors and their effects, and provides a tool to model the evolution of economies. Some assumptions followed in the definition of a free market don't hold in some real-world economies, but it is already quite thoroughly established that the evolution of real world economies does agree quite well with the evolution of economic models based on free market principles if governments ensure that these economies follow basic free market principles. > It was historically a fact because you did not have big data This is absolute nonsense.
  - mlvljr 11y ago
    I have! (see me trolling in the comments below) And yes, we can... I mean, I do, I mean, ya, sure :)

"Neoliberalism" - the straw man at the root of all left wing polemic.

johnchristopher 11y ago

Eh. "Communism" - the straw man at the root of all right wing polemic. :)

AdrianB1 11y ago
Have you ever lived under communism to know what is like? Can you recognize communism when the party that promotes communist measures have not the word "Communist" in the name?
- x5n1 11y ago
  At the end of the day what's wrong with ideology is that people look to ideology, just as they did to religion, to provide some sense of comfort and security and make them feel as if things will okay in the future. Neo-liberalism and Communism don't do that. Religion did that. That's what people want.
  - fthssht 11y ago
    Your problem with ideology is that its not as comforting as religion? I think ideology can help take a 10,000 foot view of highly complex situations. There are many factors in a political or economic decision but we can easily say that free markets have worked better through global history than communism.
    - x5n1 11y ago
      Economics is all about models. Models that are highly constrained by the current level of technology and other variables. Variables which are in constant flux. With big data you don't need models, you have actual real time information about the entire system. You also have means of using that data to make live predictions that can change all the time. Just because history says that "free markets" worked best, does not mean that this is true any more. It was historically a fact because you did not have big data or ways of computing to process supply and demand properly.
      - TheCowboy 11y ago
        Big data is just data. Though it's often sold as delivering omniscience, it doesn't inherently explain causation. It could allow in the creation of better or new models, and reduce the delay in finding out what we already know with existing models. But you won't ever get rid of models completely, as any method of prediction is itself based on a model. But I agree with your bigger point about there being possible methods/technologies that supersede some aspects of naked free markets, or mixed markets as we know them.
      - bubuga 11y ago
        > With big data you don't need models, you have actual real time information about the entire system. Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Models are just means to predict the future based on observations made in the present and/or in the past. The available data, in this sense, serves only two purposes: serve as the starting conditions to analyze how scenarios may evolve within a given degree of accuracy, or to build correlation models to help analyze scenarios with a given degree of accuracy. A model is a tool that tells you how systems evolve and lets you infer what you can expect out of them in order to make informed decisions. > You also have means of using that data to make live predictions that can change all the time. Again, this is absolute nonsense. Models are used to make decisions based on how things are expected to be years and decades into the future. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that you can tell how things will be in the immediate future if you're trying to make decisions based on what will happen over the following decades. > Just because history says that "free markets" worked best, does not mean that this is true any more. Holy non-sequitur, Batman. You sure wanted to shoe-horn that little gem in there. Furthermore, free-market isn't or will not be any more or any less true than what is right now or was in the past. The free market is just a specific theoretical definition of an economic system. It establishes conditions, draws relationships between factors and their effects, and provides a tool to model the evolution of economies. Some assumptions followed in the definition of a free market don't hold in some real-world economies, but it is already quite thoroughly established that the evolution of real world economies does agree quite well with the evolution of economic models based on free market principles if governments ensure that these economies follow basic free market principles. > It was historically a fact because you did not have big data This is absolute nonsense.
- mlvljr 11y ago
  I have! (see me trolling in the comments below) And yes, we can... I mean, I do, I mean, ya, sure :)